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Should I use Java (by Oracle) on all my Windows Clients ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Digital Doctor, Sep 24, 2012.


What Java do you use ?

  1. Microsoft

  2. Oracle (Sun)

  3. Other

  1. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    Pardon my really basic understanding of Java .. but ... I got a question.
    I remember downloading Sun's Java (long time ago) because I was under the impression that it was "more standards compliant" than the native one on Windows.

    I have lots of PCs, so it seems I use Sun Oracle Java on some, and not others.

    What's everyone else doing ?
    Does it matter ?


    Common Apps that use JAVA;
    (1) Jdowloader
    (2) Insert yours here.
  2. MagnusB

    MagnusB Well-Known Member

    Depends on what you need. Some applets only work with the official JRE, while others work with unofficial ones. If you don't need it, don't install it.
    Digital Doctor likes this.
  3. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    I don't recall seeing this ever.
    But I guess Microsoft wouldn't do that.
    Anyone know of any examples ?

    Q: would it be fair to say that most programmers make sure their Java code works with Oracle more than Microsoft ? or hard to say ?
  4. MagnusB

    MagnusB Well-Known Member

    I don't know, but I need JRE from Oracle cause of the logon solution from my bank. I haven't ever used Microsoft, but it never worked with OpenJDK. If I weren't depending on Sun, I would use something different, maybe OpenJDK if they had binaries for windows.
  5. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer Staff Member

    The implementation of Java in Microsoft Windows is incredibly basic and unbelievably out of date.

    Use the latest version of the JRE from Oracle/Sun and ensure auto updates are enabled.
    Lucas likes this.
  6. Adam Howard

    Adam Howard Well-Known Member

    Been using Oracle / Sun version 8 without any problems on Ubuntu.

    Microsoft discontinued development on their in-house version of Java. I'm not even sure if they're even still patching it (I think they stop a few years ago).
  7. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Well-Known Member

    If you can avoid using Java, do it. It's a nightmare in terms of security.
    SchmitzIT and Lucas like this.
  8. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    Don't alot of websites use Java ?
    How do I know if I need it or not ?
  9. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Well-Known Member

    The answer is simply "I don't know." It always depends on the end user.
  10. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    I use Jdownloader on 2 of say 20 PCs - I think Jdownloader requires JAVA.

    Any other popular apps need JAVA ?

    I'm making a list of apps that need Java.

    I'm installing a new Windows 7 PC. I'll avoid Java on it for now ... and I'll see if any apps I install need it.
  11. MagnusB

    MagnusB Well-Known Member

    You might be mixing javascript with Java. Allot of websites use javascript, which is included with your browser. JRE is more a software thing, such as this, or something like Minecraft (which as well is written in java).
    ManagerJosh likes this.
  12. Hatsu

    Hatsu Member

    If Minecraft is written in Java I would expect you need the JRE (Java Runtime Environment) on your platform to run it.

    @Digital Doctor
    Basically, the Java language is OS independent. So it means you can write a Java programme on Windows (standard Java, not their kind of Java ;)), compile it and it would run on Linux or iOS as well. As long as you have the JRE for the specific OS installed. That's why it's still popular for mobiles and that's why it's possible to develop web based applications in Java.
    Digital Doctor and Adam Howard like this.
  13. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    Disabled Java for a while on this one PC.
    I hate IE.
    I have to use it for some work stuff.
    - this site is IE only. No Chrome, No Firefox.
  14. RickM

    RickM Well-Known Member

    In answer to your first question (Should I use Java) I'd personally say no.

    Having developed with it throughout university, I found that whilst its a pretty easy language to pick up and build stuff, the actual performance is pure crap on pretty much all platforms.

    It's just blindingly obvious when something is written in Java. The UI feels like it's half baked, and is nearly always not correctly integrated into the OS's own UI.

    Then theres the speed problems - Java, by nature is a slow language. No idea why, it just is.

    A simple example would be netbeans - it's mind numbingly slow to work with any serious code, and it's filesystem is appaulingly slow.

    Then you've got the resource usage. Java apps tend to be pretty heavy on CPU usage, whilst Oracle/Sun call it a 'Virtual Machine', it almost feels like they are running in an old emulator, the kind you'd use to run old Windows 3.1 software on your new computer.

    Finally you've got the actual support. Microsoft stopped developing the Windows version of Java some years ago. Apple also stopped a couple of years ago, so updates on peoples installation never really happen unless the user hunts the poorly designed Oracle website for the correct update.

    Here's a few useful links which argue both sides of the coin:
    Lucas likes this.
  15. RickM

    RickM Well-Known Member

    Hardly any websites use java these days, and any that do will not actually run it until you give it permission to do so, as java is amazingly insecure.

    The only time I ever see anything using java is for remote server consoles, and maybe a few very ancient games.

    Java really isnt suitable for web-based usage. There are much better alternatives.
  16. Jesepi

    Jesepi Well-Known Member

    Bit of misinformation in this thread:
    1. Java hasn't been included in windows for years. See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Java_Virtual_Machine
    2. Java does not equal javascript. Your browser can handle javascript without a JRE installed on your computer
    3. Oracle's java implementation has had auto-update capability built into it for a while. No need to search their website, just click that little coffee cup icon that has been bugging you to run for months

    That being said - As a rule of thumb, I generally don't install java until I absolutely need it, as it is a popular way for viruses to get onto your system.
  17. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    U.S. warns on Java software as security concerns escalate

    (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Homeland Security urged computer users to disable Oracle Corp's Java software, amplifying security experts' prior warnings to hundreds of millions of consumers and businesses that use it to surf the Web.

    Hackers have figured out how to exploit Java to install malicious software enabling them to commit crimes ranging from identity theft to making an infected computer part of an ad-hoc network of computers that can be used to attack websites.

    "We are currently unaware of a practical solution to this problem," the Department of Homeland Security's Computer Emergency Readiness Team said in a posting on its website late on Thursday.

    "This and previous Java vulnerabilities have been widely targeted by attackers, and new Java vulnerabilities are likely to be discovered," the agency said. "To defend against this and future Java vulnerabilities, disable Java in Web browsers."

    Oracle declined to comment on the warning on Friday.

  18. RickM

    RickM Well-Known Member

    If you're on Chrome you can manually disable it by going to chrome://plugins/ and disabling Java (note that if Java does not show up, its not installed).
  19. RickM

    RickM Well-Known Member

    Oh and if you're on OS X Apple have already pushed through their own update to disable all versions of Java for now - you'll just need to check for software updates and it'll install.

    Not sure what Microsoft have done (if anything) though.
  20. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    Seems it's Oracle Java only ?

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