Random Thoughts...
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Syndol
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Floren
Well-known member
Sorry Jake but I don't agree. From what I remember, you and Slavik came to a consensus that threads should not be closed anymore. Yet, you continue to perform the Gestapo techniques on these forums as you see fit. Personally, I think you should not be allowed to close any threads related to XenForo development or other related topics. Is not your saying on this matter but rather Ashley, Mike or Kier (if he is still alive). So only them should manage those threads and obviously reply to concerned customers.
On the other hand, selling your salad that the only things you know are 1, 2, 3, 4 does not hold... You are basically treating us like little kids. And please don't lecture me that I should act upon my own decision and move to other forum. I spent A LOT of money on XenForo and as customer I'm entitled to know where my investment is going. If you don't care is your problem, but that is not the case with me.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
Oh I agree. I don't like locking threads. But I had to change that policy with the infamous "concern" thread. People obviously couldn't handle it. You guys tore each other to pieces in that thread. Vile stuff. And as you know, as a moderator I can't allow that kind of petty personal stuff on the forum. It is nothing to do with "development or other related topics." Don't worry about that. You are welcome to talk about development. You are not welcome to attack each other.
You are making others responsible for your concern again. That's not cool. You are a customer, yes. You are also a human being with free will and a capacity to make informed decisions. Of course you say you don't have enough information. Well, there is no more public information beyond the "1, 2, 3, 4" that I already posted, so you must base your decision on that information and nothing else. If you wish to leave for a different forum platform then I respect that decision. I don't think you should but it's your decision and it's not my place to question it.
Well, actually I do care. That's why I am doing my part to help XenForo in its time of need. But you have the right idea. If I didn't care then it would be my problem, not yours and not anybody else's. That is my larger point that I am trying to make. If you are concerned then you need to take responsibility instead of arguing your concern to everyone around you. You don't see me arguing my support of XenForo to you. I respect your autonomy. Does that respect bother you?
Floren
Well-known member
For sure I make responsible the XenForo directors, they offered a product which currently has no support and they refuse to publish an update related to future development. You are telling me that I should accept losing $1000 and move on to another software? I don't think so. No offence, but I don't consider moderators as being part of XenForo administration.
Speaking off the books, I'm really sorry that Mike is in this situation. He does not deserve to be put on a spot like that.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
I have said nothing about losses or moving to another platform. That was your idea. If you decide to stay then I am here to help with your forum needs.
We have support covered. As for development, the only update right now is that 1.2 is delayed. No ETA as of yet. There is nothing else. You will have to make a decision based on that information.
I get that too. People saying I don't deserve the flak that I receive. It doesn't bother me though. I am here to serve.
Lisa
Well-known member
Random Thought:-
Does Jake wear nothing but a backless apron while he's serving . . .
Random Thought:-
Does Jake wear nothing but a backless apron while he's serving . . .
Geeze, no kidding. After these last two days, he must be sore.
Chill the hell out people. Life is too short.
Lisa
Well-known member
Christ, I thought I lowered the tone.. but you took it even further LOLGeeze, no kidding. After these last two days, he must be sore.
Chill the hell out people. Life is too short.
Stuart Wright
Well-known member
People like Floren and myself have followed the progress of Xenforo with enthusiasm and support both moral and financial (through licenses) for our friends developing it.
People who have an investment in Xenforo, by moving their community to it, by developing addons, by defending it in the (now closed) lawsuit thread at vB (that's me) or by putting development plans on hold until it's mature enough to move to (also me), are going to be, let's say concerned, anxious, annoyed and even angry. Specially if they are aware of the situation behind the scenes more fully than the general public.
When you have a community and a business with employees whose future is heavily influenced by forum platform decisions you make, it's very dramatic when something goes wrong. To play down that drama is not appropriate.
I have a feeling (it's no more than that) that the lawsuit has precipitated the series of events which have led to the current situation. So my anger at IB's frivolous lawsuit has not subsided. If things go the way I fear, it will illustrate that when it comes to the justice, might is right.
I desperately want KAM to take hold of the reins and start steering XF again, before we lose even more support.
Since my message by PC, email and text to Kier have gone unanswered, what other avenues do I have to express my concern? I'm hoping my post here will prompt some action from KAM.
People who have an investment in Xenforo, by moving their community to it, by developing addons, by defending it in the (now closed) lawsuit thread at vB (that's me) or by putting development plans on hold until it's mature enough to move to (also me), are going to be, let's say concerned, anxious, annoyed and even angry. Specially if they are aware of the situation behind the scenes more fully than the general public.
When you have a community and a business with employees whose future is heavily influenced by forum platform decisions you make, it's very dramatic when something goes wrong. To play down that drama is not appropriate.
I have a feeling (it's no more than that) that the lawsuit has precipitated the series of events which have led to the current situation. So my anger at IB's frivolous lawsuit has not subsided. If things go the way I fear, it will illustrate that when it comes to the justice, might is right.
I desperately want KAM to take hold of the reins and start steering XF again, before we lose even more support.
Since my message by PC, email and text to Kier have gone unanswered, what other avenues do I have to express my concern? I'm hoping my post here will prompt some action from KAM.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
Sure it has. IB is destroying lives with their litigation. That's their intention. They certainly aren't trying to protect their property since their expert witness confirmed there is no stolen code.
Got about 4.5 months until the trial date. I am counting every day.
Well people used to channel that emotion towards IB and their lawsuit. But now that the effects are being felt people seem more inclined to attack the victims of the lawsuit. It's a weird turn.
Stuart Wright
Well-known member
Jake since the lawsuit delayed development of XF from the point Kier and Mike had to address that rather than work on the code, we Xenforo licensees have all been victims of the lawsuit. Now I'm not claiming it's affected us in anything like the way it must have affected KAM, but we are victims none the less.
It does seem strange that it appears we are now turning on KAM, but it is they who have caused an issue by their inaction. If you were standing at the customer service counter at Tesco, and the two representatives in charge were sat in chairs playing Angry Birds and completely ignoring you, how mad would you get?
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
I don't get mad. I would just walk away if they weren't willing to give me service. No biggie.
Fortunately I've got the service desk covered.
You could walk away. Either that or help them out like I am doing. Those are the two most productive options.
Floren
Well-known member
You have that choice only when you are not involved with that party. I want to see you walk away if your car is into the garage and the mechanic, store manager and supervisor shut their door in front of your nose if you ask them when is your car ready.
The only help a customer can provide is financial, there is nothing else we can do more. In exchange, we retain the privilege to be informed about products development and company venue. Isn't that the ONLY way to support a product or service? Take for example Microsoft, or any company that produces software. They keep you informed of their new ventures way before the product is even released into a beta. Don't you think that is the proper way to maintain a growing basis of customers and stimulate a positive environment for new products and services?
Sador
Well-known member
Feedback about the product, developing addons or modifications, writing guides or tutorials and referrals are also ways to support a product as a customer.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
As for right now there is no ETA on 1.2. They posted an announcement about this. That is keeping you informed.
Floren
Well-known member
You are obviously referring to the customers who actually are interested to gain some advantage from doing this. There is no such thing as "free" and if it is, you are probably the product. There is not ONE single tutorial or free product out there who does not have a monetary scope starting with the ads you click on that page and finishing with a derived product that could produce revenue. You can wait until the greek calends and it will not change the fact that what matters to developers is the money coming into a back account. If you are one of the people who call themselves a true help provider, then you probably have a lot of debts or you are simply retired and have absolutely nothing else to do in your life.
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