Please Don't Get Carried Away

Jethro

Well-known member
So everything should be like you want it to be?


Don't get me wrong, everybody's entitled to their opinions. Personally, I could care less about Facebook. However, if people want that, I like that they put time in it to check the suggestion out and possible integrate it. And honestly, if you dislike software because you have to click once more, you might be a bit of a perfectionist. Go build it yourself, then.
Hence why there are new forum products perhaps? No offense but if people want all the bells and whistles vB and IPS already have them covered and have large support communities, and gosh third party mod/theme writers. Perhaps there are people looking for a simpler option than what is perceived as overly bloated software?

Personally I think forum software is for posting and starting topics not for running a psuedo facebook site.

Completely off topic, but a couple of dudes knocked up a forum product on apparently 90 lines of Ruby on Rails code :) Now there's some bloat avoidance :D
 

Russ

Well-known member
Ehrm...first, I can't accept the "you can change anything you want later, so why should you care" answer. If that were truly the case, then I would just go write my own forum software to do exactly what I want it to do. The reason I don't do that is because it's very time-consuming and there are people out there who are a heck of a lot better at it than I am. I buy packages (vB and IPB) because they come slam-packed with features that I will use. I don't like the idea of buying software with popups and animations all over the place that I have to go through and remove myself - in code.

It's not just style/theme problems I'm concerned with (like where the "Mark read" link is). I'm concerned with core functionality (the silly zooming animations, popup confirmations, etc.) This isn't stuff that can be removed by editing templates. It's in the core files. I also would venture to guess that changing the "mini-me" avatar to an icon instead is not just a simple template edit. If the trend continues with bouncing animations and popup confirmations all over the place, the forum script is going to get more and more difficult to navigate.

Also, I'm in the business of making and selling skins. I want the XenForo package to look and perform its absolute best out of the box so that all I have to do as a skin provider is change the look, not functionality, of the skin ;)

If you're in the business of making and selling skins then I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work. Personally I think the pop up on the mark all forums read looks great, no matter where it is on the page it could be mis-clicked so the added confirmation is a great addition. Also if you are involved in skins then you would know that on most forum systems it is in in the "core files" but rather the STYLING files.
 

Ryan

Well-known member
Also if you are involved in skins then you would know that on most forum systems it is in in the "core files" but rather the STYLING files.
eh? Don't really follow your comment there. I think what you're saying is that all of this stuff should be able to be changed in the templates. I've never seen the XF backend myself, so I have no clue how it is put together...but, as I said in my post that you quoted, I bet that a lot of this stuff is not in templates. Animations, mini-me avatar (which has already been removed), pop-ups...This kind of stuff tends to be in the core .php files. It's not something you change on the skin itself.
 

jmurrayhead

Well-known member
This kind of stuff tends to be in the core .php files. It's not something you change on the skin itself.
I would imagine that the actual implementation is done in the template, but the data (i.e. whether or not you posted in that particular thread), is retrieved via the php files.
 

Kier

XenForo developer
Staff member
eh? Don't really follow your comment there. I think what you're saying is that all of this stuff should be able to be changed in the templates. I've never seen the XF backend myself, so I have no clue how it is put together...but, as I said in my post that you quoted, I bet that a lot of this stuff is not in templates. Animations, mini-me avatar (which has already been removed), pop-ups...This kind of stuff tends to be in the core .php files. It's not something you change on the skin itself.
It's all in the templates. A styler can fundamentally change both how XenForo looks and operates.
 

gordy

Well-known member
Hence why there are new forum products perhaps? No offense but if people want all the bells and whistles vB and IPS already have them covered and have large support communities, and gosh third party mod/theme writers. Perhaps there are people looking for a simpler option than what is perceived as overly bloated software?

Personally I think forum software is for posting and starting topics not for running a psuedo facebook site.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about usability and getting the content out of threads and profiles and into co-members hands, or confusing the presentation and the two products.

Completely off topic, but a couple of dudes knocked up a forum product on apparently 90 lines of Ruby on Rails code :)
Now there's some bloat avoidance :D
Well, there you go , lean and mean!
 

Sador

Well-known member
Hence why there are new forum products perhaps? No offense but if people want all the bells and whistles vB and IPS already have them covered and have large support communities, and gosh third party mod/theme writers. Perhaps there are people looking for a simpler option than what is perceived as overly bloated software?

Personally I think forum software is for posting and starting topics not for running a psuedo facebook site.

Completely off topic, but a couple of dudes knocked up a forum product on apparently 90 lines of Ruby on Rails code :)
Now there's some bloat avoidance :D
There's about a million of reasons why I wouldn't want to use vBulletin or IPB. There's about an equal amount of reasons why I do want to use XF. Also, apparently, there are people looking for certain bells and whistles in XF. Maybe not a whole orchestra like in vB, but certainly some. And who are we decide to what everybody wants, anyway? Like I've stated before, what I want sure as hell doesn't match with what Biker wants, so where to go next?
 

Russ

Well-known member
eh? Don't really follow your comment there. I think what you're saying is that all of this stuff should be able to be changed in the templates. I've never seen the XF backend myself, so I have no clue how it is put together...but, as I said in my post that you quoted, I bet that a lot of this stuff is not in templates. Animations, mini-me avatar (which has already been removed), pop-ups...This kind of stuff tends to be in the core .php files. It's not something you change on the skin itself.
I have yet to see the backend either but more than likely you'd find the Mark All Forums read in the style system, and move the "on click feature"(or whatever it may be), in this particular case, just a thought.

Again it comes down to compromise, I'd rather have Kier and Mike focus on getting the product running bug free rather than how the forum looks. But I see where you're coming from as well, you want a product that you're able to get up and running, and start skinning without having to tweak it a ton.
 

Ryan

Well-known member
It's all in the templates. A styler can fundamentally change both how XenForo looks and operates.
Animations are in templates? So if I want to remove the bouncy effect when zooming to a quoted post or enlarging a resized image, I do that directly in templates?

Irregardless, I'm sure that some of this stuff can be changed in templates, but I'm also sure that some cannot. Doesn't mean that you should just throw all sorts of bells and whistles into the default package and instruct customers to remove what they want in templates though. I like me some bells and whistles, just don't want them getting out of hand.
 

Kier

XenForo developer
Staff member
Animations are in templates? So if I want to remove the bouncy effect when zooming to a quoted post or enlarging a resized image, I do that directly in templates?
Animations are not in templates. Calls to initialise animations are in templates.
 

Russ

Well-known member
Animations are in templates? So if I want to remove the bouncy effect when zooming to a quoted post or enlarging a resized image, I do that directly in templates?

Irregardless, I'm sure that some of this stuff can be changed in templates, but I'm also sure that some cannot. Doesn't mean that you should just throw all sorts of bells and whistles into the default package and instruct customers to remove what they want in templates though. I like me some bells and whistles, just don't want them getting out of hand.
I think so far nothing it out of hand when it comes to effects. I love the way everything, I myself would probably end up changing the description pop up text but it's not something I would want the devs to spend time taking a poll on which way looks better. I'm positive it'd be as easy as taking the code from the popup and placing it underneath the forum title(slimmed down process ;p).
 
F

Floris

Guest
I just love how flexible it is. I think once users eventually near winter get their licensed copy that they will be impressed and come up with all sorts of awesome tweaks.
 

Kier

XenForo developer
Staff member
Iiiinteresting, my anticipation to see the backend is growing :cool:
Example from the bb_code_tag_quote template:

Animated attribution links:
HTML:
<a href="[link code goes here]" class="AttributionLink">&uarr;</a>
Standard / non-animated attribution links:
HTML:
<a href="[link code goes here]">&uarr;</a>
 

Ryan

Well-known member
Very nice, I like

Still not completely comfortable with the idea of editing templates to remove "fluff" (popups, jittery animation), etc., but to each their own.

And no, those specific animations are obviously not a make or break feature for me. Honestly, the animations are incredibly minor. It's just the bigger picture - the more and more you add bells and whistles that look nice but get in the way of things, the harder it is to use the forums, and the less realistic it is to "just edit it out of the templates". It's just one edit, one template here...but who knows what it will be 6 months from now.
 
F

Floris

Guest
Ryan, at least you have the option. It's coded so it's dynamic and not set in stone in the source code .php.
It's a fresh look at what modern web sites can do, and I support it. :)
 
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