grant sarver
Well-known member
I Learned In Kindergarten
That was penned by Robert Fulgum when he was my minister at Edmonds Unitarian Church in Edmonds, Washington. His book was a collection of those sermons. Great guy.
Palestinian Bid For Statehood
- Thread starter Fred Sherman
- Start date
- Status
That was penned by Robert Fulgum when he was my minister at Edmonds Unitarian Church in Edmonds, Washington. His book was a collection of those sermons. Great guy.
EQnoble
Well-known member
Isn't that just a bit of random awesomeness.
grant sarver
Well-known member
Funny, these ARE actually the rules I have posted on one of my forums.
All I Really Need To Know
I Learned In Kindergarten
by Robert Fulghum
- an excerpt from the book, All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten
All I really need to know I learned in kindergarten.
ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW about how to live and what to do
and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not
at the top of the graduate-school mountain, but there in the
sandpile at Sunday School. These are the things I learned:
Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life - learn some and think some
and draw and paint and sing and dance and play
and work every day some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic,
hold hands, and stick together.
All I Really Need To Know
I Learned In Kindergarten
by Robert Fulghum
- an excerpt from the book, All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten
All I really need to know I learned in kindergarten.
ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW about how to live and what to do
and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not
at the top of the graduate-school mountain, but there in the
sandpile at Sunday School. These are the things I learned:
Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life - learn some and think some
and draw and paint and sing and dance and play
and work every day some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic,
hold hands, and stick together.
grant sarver
Well-known member
A few things my buddy Samuel Langhorne Clemens said...
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.
grant sarver
Well-known member
Shiite and Sunni are religious sects and a choice. Arab and Persian? Like calling a Frank a Celt.For the sake of simplicity and I forgot the slash - don't want to discuss the Persians, Shiite and Sunni Muslims, etc.
Fred Sherman
Well-known member
Not even close to being true.
Arabs are 20% of the Israeli population and most consider themselves Israeli citizens and ethnically Palestinians. This is no different that how I see myself: I am an American citizen of Irish decent.They have full right of citizenship.
Then there are the Arabs living Gaza, the Golan and East Jerusalem. They were offered citizenship and refused. Even so, they still get the right to vote! We don't even let non-citizen residents vote in the US. And who can they vote for? How about any one of the three Arab political parties? Did you know every that every state-run company must have at least one Israeli-Arab on its board of directors?
Israeli law requires that the Arab population right to receive government distributed information in Arabic. Basic level Arabic is required learning in all Hebrew-speaking schools. Do we require a functional command of Spanish in the US under similar circumstances? No.
Israel doesn't treat Arabs like second class citizens, its that the vocal minority "feels" like second class citizens because Israel defines itself as a Jewish State. The flag has the Star of David, a uniquely Jewish symbol. Thats it. Its an impression, not a reality.
Israel does far more to accommodate and integrate its Arab population that we do in the US for our minority population and far more than any EU country does.
Yesterday, Palestinians were Philistines. Today, Israelis mistreat Arabs.
How the hell can we ever reach a solution when there is so much misinformation accepted as truth?
grant sarver
Well-known member
Your truth!
The equality of Palestinians is like the equality of the old south; so-called "separate but equal" crap. Only Palestinians are required to have travel permits.
Settlements now cover more than 40 percent of the occupied West Bank, a fifth of them on private Palestinian land. Guess it's OK to mistreat Palestinian who just want to remain on their land. Oh, yeah, I forgot they were offered Israeli citizenship.
No nation of "Palestine"? No, just a bunch of lines drawn on a map with the name "Palestine" in bold letters in the middle.
Too bad all of those sheep-herders and Bedouins forgot to form a central government so they would be recognized as a "Nation". They were just the "indigenous" people of the area. In 1947, the United Nations issued U.N. General Assembly Resolution No. 181, which formally partitioned Palestine between Jews (whose numbers swelled during and after the Second World War) and Arabs. The Palestinians, who owned more than 92 percent of the land, were given less than half of it, while Jews were given 56 percent of the land even though they owned only 8 percent of it and they made up less than a third of the population.
Not surprisingly, the Palestine Arabs rejected a plan that would dissect their nation and leave them short changed in the process and dug in for a fight. The State of Israel was declared a year later with little account given to the borders outlined in the UN declaration.
Kim
Well-known member
You know I have been following this rigorous debate without commenting for some time now, but I have to applaud Grant for actually stating the bleeding obvious "fact" from that time... the Palestinians were nomadic indigenous people, much like the Australian Indigenous, or the American Indigenous etc. Their culture did not include a centralized government, or even a "nation" as we would call it, but that does not mean that they never had, nor now have zero rights because of it.
No sensible person now disputes that when our countries were "settled" the way those Indigenous groups were treated was appalling, and in a modern civilized society we recognise and acknowledge, that whilst our forefather's acted in the interest of the colonizing group, they often trampled all over the Indigenous, if not far worse.
There seems to be a lot of mirroring of those situations and appalling behaviours going on, and no doubt the same arguments could have been made 150 - 200 years ago.. only difference being, we have supposedly grown up and moved on as civilised societies... haven't we?
I have no vested interest in this debate one way or another, I am not aligned to either side of the argument... but I have for many years watched in horror as the situation just gets worse and worse, with little to no possibility of a resolution.
Hard line argument of historical "facts" is never going to resolve this issue, it's time for both sides to grow the funk up, and try to work out a peaceful resolution, which starts with recognising the rights of the Indigenous peoples...Those of us in colonized nations have had to do this, grow up as societies bite the bullet and pay up in the form of compensation or equvalent.... Some have even appologised for the appalling acts of those early colonials.
There is much to admire about Israel, there is no doubt they have carved out a great nation from what was desert, and have thrived and prospered, however their expansionist ways over the last 30 years have lost them a lot of sympathy and empathy with many even very "liberal" people.
As they say, one man's terrorist, is another's freedom fighter. If you poke a bee hive for long enough.. you will get stung.
I have heard all the arguments over and over and over and over (my father an I love to lock horns over this issue, he and Fred would be best buddies on this debate - if most definitely not on any other lol)
Surely it is time for a new approach?
No sensible person now disputes that when our countries were "settled" the way those Indigenous groups were treated was appalling, and in a modern civilized society we recognise and acknowledge, that whilst our forefather's acted in the interest of the colonizing group, they often trampled all over the Indigenous, if not far worse.
There seems to be a lot of mirroring of those situations and appalling behaviours going on, and no doubt the same arguments could have been made 150 - 200 years ago.. only difference being, we have supposedly grown up and moved on as civilised societies... haven't we?
I have no vested interest in this debate one way or another, I am not aligned to either side of the argument... but I have for many years watched in horror as the situation just gets worse and worse, with little to no possibility of a resolution.
Hard line argument of historical "facts" is never going to resolve this issue, it's time for both sides to grow the funk up, and try to work out a peaceful resolution, which starts with recognising the rights of the Indigenous peoples...Those of us in colonized nations have had to do this, grow up as societies bite the bullet and pay up in the form of compensation or equvalent.... Some have even appologised for the appalling acts of those early colonials.
There is much to admire about Israel, there is no doubt they have carved out a great nation from what was desert, and have thrived and prospered, however their expansionist ways over the last 30 years have lost them a lot of sympathy and empathy with many even very "liberal" people.
As they say, one man's terrorist, is another's freedom fighter. If you poke a bee hive for long enough.. you will get stung.
I have heard all the arguments over and over and over and over (my father an I love to lock horns over this issue, he and Fred would be best buddies on this debate - if most definitely not on any other lol)
Surely it is time for a new approach?
Kim
Well-known member
Whilst ever people maintain the status quo thinking, nothing is going to change, and no amount of patronizing anyone with an alternative view is going to change that. Whilst you are arguing black and blue from your position, so is someone of equal intelligence on the other side, and whilst ever both sides are actively instilling hatred and disgust in their children for the other - this conflict will continue until one group or other annihilates the other. Both sides are so invested in their view point the only answer they have is more of the same... or a more extreme version of it, and lashing out at anyone who says "have a look at this in an alternative light".
My comments were saying "Yeah we (as often badly behaved colonial nations) have had to eat humble pie ourselves, whilst we know it is not the same situation, perhaps you can take something from our experience and apply it to your situation... " obviously not a view point someone so vested wants to even acknowledge exists..
Land rights are largely what this whole thing is about, not religion. That was my point... one you failed to see.
So you want to end the conversation.. so it seems does anyone from either side who has ever entered into a peace talks with the other side. Sadly the situation will never change, due to just such attitudes.
It would appear that all sides of this conflict have no real interest in finding peace at all. No amount of nicely worded quotes of meekness and peace are going to change that, you can call yourself, your people whatever you want, but if you don't act that way, it is only words. This applies equally to both sides of this or any other conflict.
Me and my naive un-worldly closed mind will shut up now.
ps.. Yasser Arafat didn't have me fooled then, and neither do the arguments of either side now..
grant sarver
Well-known member
Is there some reason you cannot just have a discussion without the derision? "How sophomoric"? "Kim, respectfully, you're a long way from appreciating the nature of the problems in issue"? "Perhaps you and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad can discuss how the parties can "grow up" over tea"? No wonder you have such an attitude with the Arab world, you can't even treat the folks here with proper respect.
And now the Palestinians should be held responsible for what has happened in "Iran, Iraq, Syria and the other countries in the middle east"? Can't you stay on topic? Must you paint the Middle East with a broad brush? We should continue the policies that have accomplished so much during the past sixty years?
"Let's just end this conversation - NOW"? Sounds good to me!
And now the Palestinians should be held responsible for what has happened in "Iran, Iraq, Syria and the other countries in the middle east"? Can't you stay on topic? Must you paint the Middle East with a broad brush? We should continue the policies that have accomplished so much during the past sixty years?
"Let's just end this conversation - NOW"? Sounds good to me!
kkm323
Well-known member
TheLaw, who created that hatred isn't the zionists with their ideas of expanding. The jews were expelled from Europe, and Russia NOT the Middle East, Look here and see when did they moved from the arab world is only after the creation of the State of Israel after 1948. In fact there are still jews in the arab world now who opposed the action of the zionist.
yavuz
Well-known member
It seems that people opposed to Palestinian Statehood want to "just end" the discussion. It's no coincidence that deflects the mind of the Israeli's. They are strenghtend not by their military power or their reach but this mind set. Just end everything, by not doing anything, keep thing the way they are. Even the very existence of Palestinians was up for debate here. Is there a reason left to discuss then? Maybe you should read a litle what Richard Falk had to say about all this and get back here.
This will be my last post here. Sadly, there is no common ground anymore after this point to debate or discuss anything regarding this issue.
This will be my last post here. Sadly, there is no common ground anymore after this point to debate or discuss anything regarding this issue.
grant sarver
Well-known member
"Denial ain't just a river in Egypt".
John
Well-known member
Seems the opposing views of one specific member aren't allowed to remain. Yeah, real grown up conversation we have going on here (and yes, I did see his replies before they were deleted and they were no more out of line than many others that have been allowed to remain). One of the main reasons I am hating forums more and more...this one included.
Kim
Well-known member
I can't say for certain of course... but.. I believe the member in question must have deleted his own posts.
- Status