Palestinian Bid For Statehood

[Syndol]

Therefor both Hamas and the Mossad are terrorist organization...

Brogan, the US have no choice but to choose Isreal. It's been this way and it would be... Trust Me

You are blaming the Mossad. Really?
Are you truly comparing the intelligence branch of a Democratic state surrounded by countries of Authoritarian rule, to Hamas, a terrorist group, which uses ruthless and cowardly suicide bombings of civilians, of which many are women and children?

If you are going to use propaganda in your Avatar (you are not demanding peace but rather ‘victory’), then at least know your subject matter. Using words like ‘trust me’ is not an argument or educated view point.

 

[Robert F Schmitz]

Well fight dirty or not, the Israeli government hasn't done much to make the situation any better.

 

[AdamD]

I choose option I - I Want to live on another planet, away from such petty things!

 

[kkm323]

You are blaming the Mossad. Really?
Are you truly comparing the intelligence branch of a Democratic state surrounded by countries of Authoritarian rule, to Hamas, a terrorist group, which uses ruthless and cowardly suicide bombings of civilians, of which many are women and children?

If you are going to use propaganda in your Avatar (you are not demanding peace but rather ‘victory’), then at least know your subject matter. Using words like ‘trust me’ is not an argument or educated view point.

[1] yes, indeed it kills , therefore its a problem

[2] propaganda has nothing to do with my country flag. "victory" is peace and freedom, I don't need anything more than those two rights in my life. You don't think I deserve peace and freedom?!

* "trust me" is what I learned through my entire life. Having hope that policies would change in the US toward this subject it just never did. I just hope it would

maybe you should change your "tune" its starting to move to the other direction which i don't like to see in XenForo

 

[yavuz]

Palestine will eventually be recognized, one way or another. And it's most certainly not a matter to be left to the Israeli's. They don't seem to be eager to make peace or negotiate. It's always this, always that... Yesterday it was because of Arafat, today Hamas and I’m sure when Hamas is out of the picture it will be something else…


They found a better solution actually; building high walls, and alienate themself from the rest of the world. Why should they care? There was no political pressure up until now and they stalled the world with fairytales.

 

[Fred Sherman]

the list of many empire who conquered that land doesn't reflect the name of the region... read this (its been called this name since the 5th century BC

As the same entry shows, its also been called by other names for just as long, among them Canaan, Judea, and israel.

just to point something, killing without a trail by legitimate court is consider murder (Terror Act). Therefor both Hamas and the Mossad are terrorist organization and they both should banned. I see them both as the main problem and we would live better without them.

This is where you keep loosing me. I have first hand knowledge of the Mossad, having been on joint ops with them. They are the intelligence arm of the Israeli government and operate with under the control and with the sanction of that government. They are no different than the CIA or the old Soviet KGB.

There is not logical or moral equivalence between the Mossad and Hamas.

Brogan, the US have no choice but to choose Isreal. It's been this way and it would be... Trust Me

Likely true. I don't see how Israel pissed off Egypt. They let terrorists operate in their country and attack Israel. Israel retaliated. The Egyptian casualties are their own damned fault.

What if French Quebec separatists were shelling Quebec killing innocent civilians from Pittsburg, Vermont and the US government turned a blind eye to it. Then the Canadian Air Force bombed the hell out of separatists in Pittsburg, but there were some collateral damage and they just happened to be US military officers. Hmmm.. why are they there?

Who would ultimately be at fault?

I still don't have an answer for why all of the land for a Palestinian homeland must come exclusively from Israel and why there is no claim to or support from Jordan.

Why do you define the UN as antagonistic?

Seriously?

 

[Paul B]

They are no different than the CIA or the old Soviet KGB.

All three organisations have carried out illegal operations in other countries.

Government sanctioned or not, it's still illegal, and still murder.

 

[Fred Sherman]

All three organisations have carried out illegal operations in other countries.

Government sanctioned or not, it's still illegal, and still murder.

Its no more murder than war is murder.

 

[Robert F Schmitz]

Its no more murder than war is murder.

War is murder. How can killing someone else be anything else?

 

[Paul B]

This thread is indicative of why there will never be a peaceful solution.

Both sides have entrenched opinions and views.

 

[jmurrayhead]

To solve these problems, I nominate myself to become the ruler of the world. Everyone will be allies and we will all work for the prosperity of all mankind and will live happily ever after. The End.

 

[Robert F Schmitz]

...Seriously?

You stated that this should be a discussion. How is that reply to my question a discussion? I want to know what your thoughts are as to why you feel that the UN is an antagonist?

 

[Fred Sherman]

maybe you should change your "tune" its starting to move to the other direction which i don't like to see in XenForo

I agree. I every other dealings we've had, you've shown yourself to be a good and kind person. People need to remember that ultimately this isn't about the governments that represent people, but the people themselves and that there is an intrinsic human dignity and value that all people are entitled to.

I have to believe that if you can strip away the hatred, the bigotry, the lies and the politics and focus on that, there has to be a solution.

 

[Robert F Schmitz]

This thread is indicative of why there will never be a peaceful solution.

Both sides have entrenched opinions and views.

Exactly and unfortunately the failure to compromise is spreading around the globe. Just look at the ridiculous behavior of the two parties in the US.

This issue grew out of interference from many and has grown due to real and perceived threats and insults into a mess that can NOT be solved politically because politicians by nature act on what may keep them in power.

 

[Syndol]

All three organisations have carried out illegal operations in other countries.

Government sanctioned or not, it's still illegal, and still murder.

That is all very nice, but in the context of this thread, are you then suggesting that these intelligence services are the same as a terrorist organisation?

 

[kkm323]

There is not logical or moral equivalence between the Mossad and Hamas.

look at the list of their assassination. the people who died has families and friend who dislike this action therefore hate Isreal ----> violence<---- . They are one main source of the problem and their behavior need to be changed

I still don't have an answer for why all of the land for a Palestinian homeland must come exclusively from Israel and why there is no claim to or support from Jordan.

Because they own the land Its their. They have documents/leased to prove that, then by force Israel took that land.
There are more than 2,700,000 palestinian in Jordan more than the population of West Bank!!

what is your reasonable solution to the problem?

 

[grant sarver]

Or is Palestine simply the excuse for Arab anti-semitism?

While I may pass on the rest of your argument, I do feel compelled (God only knows why) to at least mention that Arabs are "semites" too. So for an Arab to be "anti-semitic" would be rather oxymoronic.

 

[yavuz]

Or is Palestine simply the excuse for Arab anti-semitism?

Or is anti-semitism an excuse for the Israelis?

 

[Fred Sherman]

what is your reasonable solution to the problem?

I wish I had one. Damned British Imperialism. Hey! There's idea! Does Palestine have to be int he Middle East or would you be open to Whales? God knows the Welsh aren't doing anything important with it.

Jokes aside, I don't know. Basic human decency demands a homeland for the Palestinians. Can we agree on that?

The idea that Israel is going to give up something in return for nothing isn't going to happen. What would you offer Israel in return for a Palestinian homeland? What is the compromise?

Sometimes, the art of the deal isn't the win/win where everyone is happy. Sometimes the best deal is the one where both sides are equally pissed off.

The deal I'd like to see is that for every three acres Israel gives up, Jordan gives up one, Syria gives up one and Lebanon gives up one.

 

[Paul B]

or would you be open to Whales? God knows the Welsh aren't doing anything important with it.

Not with whales we're not

Wales though is a different matter...