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Online indicator - still shows online status

AndyB

Well-known member
#1
I currently have the "Show your online status" unchecked in my Preferences:

pic001.jpg

Yet when I view a thread that I have posted in, it still shows the online status indicator.

pic002.jpg

I realize this is currently by design, but I don't think this is a good idea. By continuing to show the online status indicator even though it has been unchecked makes the user wonder if the preference was ever set.

Please change this so that if we uncheck the "Show your online status", it will not show to anyone including ourselves.

Thank you.
 

Shelley

Well-known member
#2
I currently have the "Show your online status" unchecked in my Preferences:

View attachment 79646

Yet when I view a thread that I have posted in, it still shows the online status indicator.

View attachment 79647

I realize this is currently by design, but I don't think this is a good idea. By continuing to show the online status indicator even though it has been unchecked makes the user wonder if the preference was ever set.

Please change this so that if we uncheck the "Show your online status", it will not show to anyone including ourselves.

Thank you.
Could be mistaken, but doesn't that only apply to the members online block? Not the online status icon that's being introduced in 1.4.

Edit: if you uncheck it members won't be able to see a indicator only yourself and staff. Personally i think it's self explanatory myself, just my opinion.
 

Amaury

Well-known member
#5
Only you and user groups that can bypass user privacy will see the green dot if you have disabled your online status. In addition, when you save any preference changes, a message at the top pops up confirming the changes were saved.
 

FredC

Well-known member
#6
Agreed with the OP i confuse easy enough i dont need any green dots confusing me any more than they did in the eighties. Makes me have to frequently double check to see if i am indeed invisible.
 

Amaury

Well-known member
#7
Agreed with the OP i confuse easy enough i dont need any green dots confusing me any more than they did in the eighties. Makes me have to frequently double check to see if i am indeed invisible.
It's not any different than still being able to see your activity if you're invisible.
 

Grover

Well-known member
#8
I realize this is currently by design, but I don't think this is a good idea. By continuing to show the online status indicator even though it has been unchecked makes the user wonder if the preference was ever set.

Please change this so that if we uncheck the "Show your online status", it will not show to anyone including ourselves.

Thank you.
I could change my mind if I think about it longer (no time now), but my first thought is: yes I agree with what you are saying.

Only you and user groups that can bypass user privacy will see the green dot if you have disabled your online status. In addition, when you save any preference changes, a message at the top pops up confirming the changes were saved.
The message at the top only displays -logically- when you set the option. But when you login a few days later and see the green dot on your Avatar, you might get confused and not remember if you set yourself invisible or not.

It's not any different than still being able to see your activity if you're invisible.
What do you mean by this?

The purpose of the indicator is to show other people that you are online. If you choose to be invisible, then it would be logical that your online indicator reflects this, but it does not. At least, not for yourself. Apparently (according to @AndyB) , when you choose the option to be invisible (Show Your Online Status is unchecked), other people do not see your green online indicator, but you yourself do.
Why exactly is that? What purpose does that serve? If there's a purpose to it, I could change my mind ;-). But my first thought is... it only generates confusion. Because you would expect the indicator to reflect your status. And your status is invisible, but still it shows (to you) that you are online. I find that strange, because imagening going on Skype and put yourself on Invisible mode and your online status icon only changes for everybody else instead of you. It makes you think that the function is simply not working. So, on Skype when you put yourself on Invisible Mode, your status icon changes for YOU as well. To indicate (it is an indicator for a reason) that you have set yourself on Invisible Mode.

In Xenforo we can see that we have set ourselves on Invisible mode by going back to forumhome and in the Members Online Now block you will see your Username in lighter blue. But the online indicator does not reflect that indeed.
 

Amaury

Well-known member
#9
What do you mean by this?

The purpose of the indicator is to show other people that you are online. If you choose to be invisible, then it would be logical that your online indicator reflects this, but it does not. At least, not for yourself. Apparently (according to @AndyB) , when you choose the option to be invisible (Show Your Online Status is unchecked), other people do not see your green online indicator, but you yourself do.
Why exactly is that? What purpose does that serve? If there's a purpose to it, I could change my mind ;-). But my first thought is... it only generates confusion. Because you would expect the indicator to reflect your status. And your status is invisible, but still it shows (to you) that you are online. I find that strange, because imagening going on Skype and put yourself on Invisible mode and your online status icon only changes for everybody else instead of you. It makes you think that the function is simply not working. So, on Skype when you put yourself on Invisible Mode, your status icon changes for YOU as well. To indicate (it is an indicator for a reason) that you have set yourself on Invisible Mode.

In Xenforo we can see that we have set ourselves on Invisible mode by going back to forumhome and in the Members Online Now block you will see your Username in lighter blue. But the online indicator does not reflect that indeed.
I mean exactly what I said. In addition:

Not really for me, and by doing the phrase change, you are being exact in letting them know who can see their status.
I personally would expect to be able to see my status - since I know that I'm online. I'm not the type that worries about anyone knowing whether I'm online or not though (that's why I never disable that on any forum I participate in).
If you are worried about that, then you should also be about them clicking on their avatar in a forum area because it shows what they were last doing for them also (don't think it does it if a normal user does though).
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#10
To me, the current behaviour seems consistent.

The online indicator shows to:
  1. Everyone if "Show online status" is checked.
  2. Yourself plus anyone who has the "Bypass user privacy" if "Show online status" is unchecked.
It's also worth noting that any member card or user profile shows the current online status via the last activity to:
  1. Everyone if "Show online status" is checked.
  2. Yourself plus anyone who has the "Bypass user privacy" if "Show online status" is unchecked.
So the indicator and the last user activity behaviour is consistent. It's also no different with regards to members online now list.

There is no invisible indicator like there is in members online now list though possible to add one yourself if so desired which would solve the problem.
 

Grover

Well-known member
#11
I mean exactly what I said. In addition:
Thanks for the addition. It is however not so helpful to state 'I mean exactly what I said'. Obviously I do not understand what you were saying exactly, so I asked for an explanation of what you mean by 'It's not any different than still being able to see your activity if you're invisible.' What do you mean by 'your activity'?
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#12
In your member card and user profile. It lists your last activity. You're currently viewing this thread.

The behaviour of that is consistent with the online indicator in posts. By which I mean you can see it whether you're shown as online or not and anyone with the "Bypass user privacy" permission can see it whether you're shown as online or not.

The online indicator showing in the same way is neither new nor inconsistent with the current behaviour of other areas of the software.
 

Grover

Well-known member
#14
To me, the current behaviour seems consistent.
In your member card and user profile. It lists your last activity. You're currently viewing this thread.

The behaviour of that is consistent with the online indicator in posts. By which I mean you can see it whether you're shown as online or not and anyone with the "Bypass user privacy" permission can see it whether you're shown as online or not.

The online indicator showing in the same way is neither new nor inconsistent with the current behaviour of other areas of the software.
Alright. But... one could argue if consistency -in this case- should be prefered above practicle usefulness and intuitiveness.

It might be nothing new (the way it is presented) as you rightfully point out, but the online indicator in itself IS new :). Therefor making the way your invisible status is handled more prominent/visible/in-your-face. For me personally I find it not intuitive that an online indicator shows me as online if -in fact- I am invisible. The username in the Who's Online Now block at forumhome is light blue, so why -for the argument of consistency- is this then not reflected in the display of the username in the postings? That could be another argument of consistency. But... since we now have the Online Indicator present, I understand the confusion of the suggestion maker above. In this new case with the new indicator at hand, one would think a grey indicator could be displayed for you when you yourself are on invisible mode. That seems to be the most intuitive way is my first thought.
 
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Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#15
Isn't it unintuitive and confusing then to show user activity and show in the members online list at all? Because if you remove the online indicator from the avatar, surely it should be removed from these areas too. At the same time, the ability for user privacy to be overridden should be removed?

To me, it's much more intuitive, if the online indicator (in whatever form, last activity, members online list) is visible where it is now, it should also carry over to the new online indicator (which it does already).

Anyway. I'm done with this thread already. I can see where it's going.

You're correct Grover. I agree with you. That's the easiest thing to do these days. The conversation will carry on for years otherwise.
 

Grover

Well-known member
#16
Anyway. I'm done with this thread already. I can see where it's going.

You're correct Grover. I agree with you. That's the easiest thing to do these days. The conversation will carry on for years otherwise.
It never helps any dialogue to make it personal like this. I have to say I find it quite remarkable to read. To be honest, approaches like this made me leave this community a while ago.

I wish people would allow each other the space to share their feedback on this amazing product, that is what a community is for. We don't have to agree with eachother, we are here to share, to make the product better. I fail to see why personal remarks like this help. Thank you for understanding.
 

kontrabass

Well-known member
#17
I currently have the "Show your online status" unchecked in my Preferences:

View attachment 79646

Yet when I view a thread that I have posted in, it still shows the online status indicator.

View attachment 79647

I realize this is currently by design, but I don't think this is a good idea. By continuing to show the online status indicator even though it has been unchecked makes the user wonder if the preference was ever set.

Please change this so that if we uncheck the "Show your online status", it will not show to anyone including ourselves.

Thank you.
After upgrading last night I'm already dealing with users confused by this. Users by nature believe that what they see on their screen, is what everyone else sees. If they see a green dot on their avatar, they think everyone else can. I'm having to explain many times over that "no, only you can see your green online indicator", when it would be so much simpler to just hide it with the pref is unchecked. Why do I need to see that "yes, I'm in fact... online!". Lol.
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#18
It's more visible now, but it has always been like this.

If you ever looked at your member card, you are online. If you look at your profile, you are online. Conversely, if you look at your avatar in posts, you are online.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp eventually, even if it does need explaining a few times.
 

RobParker

Well-known member
#19
We've just upgraded to 1.4 and I keep getting PMs from our members saying that its not working, they've set their privacy but its still showing them as online.

I'm understand the consistency argument but this is now much more visible than it used to be and the expectation is clearly that when they tick to hide their status that it should appear hidden to themselves.

If it needs explaining multiple times to people as it's not what they expect, maybe it needs rethinking?
 

Amaury

Well-known member
#20
We've just upgraded to 1.4 and I keep getting PMs from our members saying that its not working, they've set their privacy but its still showing them as online.
Yes, they will still be able to see that they're online, but if they've got invisibility enabled, only staff will be able to see them.

I'm understand the consistency argument but this is now much more visible than it used to be and the expectation is clearly that when they tick to hide their status that it should appear hidden to themselves.
It's no different than still being able to see your activity when you're invisible (e.g., "Viewing forum list, A moment ago).