Official international support?

[Been Told]

A discussion about international support and such has started in one of the German threads here. Now we know from Scott (vB-Germany) that he is contractually bound to IB and cannot offer official German distribution of xenForo.

So I guess my question is: what are the plans in regards to international customers?
There are several forum owners out there who are willing to pay for software, but only if they can get support for it in their language. And I think that that is a market xenForo cannot (and probably will not want to) ignore.

I know from what Kier said that crowd sourcing will be used to create translation of xenForo.
But I believe that much more needs to be done in order to really have a foot in the several international markets.
Obviously a setup like vBulletin has with vBulletin Germany is not easy to do. Otherwise it would not be the only such partnership out there.
Especially international ticket support might be a bit tricky (but not impossible).
Official international forums could be created (and controlled) by xenForo and run by international customers who can help support the software in their language. It's not as good as international ticket support, but better than nothing. However, those communities would need to be close to xenForo.
What I mean is, they should be more than just "fan forums" and such.
Once the translations are created, maybe those spin-off forums could be entrusted with maintaining those language files.

Another option would probably be international forums right here on xenForo.com. But in the long run, I don't think that would suffice. Plus, we'd still be getting complaints about non-English threads/posts popping up in "what's new". (Wow, how terrible.)

I don't think there would be any shortage of people wanting to do international support. No, it may not be the same quality of support you would get from paid staff (like at vB-Germany). But again, better than nothing.

So, to make a long story short:
What are your plans with regards to international customers and their place on xenForo?

 

[Hatsu]

what kind of phone-support you are expecting to get ?
I mean: what are the typical questions you would ask a software-company like XF when calling them ?

It's not about calling a "software" company but perhaps someone would call because he messed up his forum and needs fast response as it's vital for his business?

 

[Been Told]

sounds like "Scott" is the only guy in the world who speaks both english and german ?

Not at all. I like Scott and his work, so sue me.

As for crowd sourcing translations, I hope strongly that there will be some kind of supervisor or supervision team that ensures consistency and quality.

As for "calling support" and that kind of thing... Well it's obvious from what Ashley said, that they don't currently plan any official professional support in other languages.
So that means that people will create forums that will take care of that as best they can. Of course that should not be confused with professional support and I don't think anyone will expect that.
I just hope that those forums will be more than just fan forums. That there will be some official recognition or something like that. I'm a fan of centralized things when it comes to stuff like forum software. So I hope that all the many international xenForo communities will sooner rather than later consolidate. Because at first everyone will be trying to be THE [insert language] xenForo community. I believe that over time the crowds will determine who THE [insert language] xenForo community will be. I just hope it doesn't take too long and it won't turn into a big war of egos.

To make it clear: I'm not asking this for myself. I'm perfectly happy with English support/discussions/communities. I just want to make sure that international customers aren't left out.

 

[erich37]

yeah, so why not have this international places just over here at XF.com ?
And we can all support each other, no matter what the native language might be.

I do not see any point of having 3rd-party webmasters running their independent local shows......
As you say, this is gonna be difficult to consolidate in the future and ego-fighting stuff.

Having XF.com running in different languages makes perfect sense.
This also provides XF with the opportunity to have their international business in their own hands with support of the community.

Well, that´s how I would run it from a business-perspective, rather than let it loose to any other people having them taking over the international business.

The value is in utilizing the already strong international community on XF.com and getting the free support of all of us.

Crowd-Sourcing is a business-strategy not limited to language-translations........

 

[Forsaken]

Not at all. I like Scott and his work, so sue me.

As for crowd sourcing translations, I hope strongly that there will be some kind of supervisor or supervision team that ensures consistency and quality.

As for "calling support" and that kind of thing... Well it's obvious from what Ashley said, that they don't currently plan any official professional support in other languages.
So that means that people will create forums that will take care of that as best they can. Of course that should not be confused with professional support and I don't think anyone will expect that.
I just hope that those forums will be more than just fan forums. That there will be some official recognition or something like that. I'm a fan of centralized things when it comes to stuff like forum software. So I hope that all the many international xenForo communities will sooner rather than later consolidate. Because at first everyone will be trying to be THE [insert language] xenForo community. I believe that over time the crowds will determine who THE [insert language] xenForo community will be. I just hope it doesn't take too long and it won't turn into a big war of egos.

To make it clear: I'm not asking this for myself. I'm perfectly happy with English support/discussions/communities. I just want to make sure that international customers aren't left out.

I probably see XenForo recruiting more well known members in the community to possibly help out with supervision, and that makes the most sense to me as well.

I think the biggest advantage that can be given to XenFor when starting is the same advantage that vBulletin has had: its community. By this I am hoping that the members are going to actively involved with the production of language packs, the development of mods, and the designing of styles.

 

 

[Been Told]

yeah, so why not have this international places just over here at XF.com ?
And we can all support each other, no matter what the native language might be.

I do not see any point of having 3rd-party webmasters running their independent local shows......
As you say, this is gonna be difficult to consolidate in the future and ego-fighting stuff.

Having XF.com running in different forums would make best sense.
This also this provides K&M to have their international business in their own hands with support of the community.
Well, that´s how I would run it from a business-perspective, rather than let it loose to any other people having them taking over the international business.

The value is in utilizing the already strong international community on XF.com and getting the free support of all of us.
Crowd-Sourcing is a business-strategy not limited to language-translation........

My thoughts exactly. But it looks like that's not the route ahead.

 

[Forsaken]

My thoughts exactly. But it looks like that's not the route ahead.

I think your best bet is to petition Mike, Kier, and Ashley to create language-specific support forums on XenForo.com, and to appoint someone specifically to help them.

This is probably not the best solution, however it is likely to be the best until they have had the time to look at all their options. It would also work well with the crowdsourcing, as the user they choose could also be in charge of supervising the language. 

 

[jörgk]

An nice example for this is --> http://www.vbseo.com/f2/

 

[Hatsu]

If there were international forums here on xF.com there would be the expectation to get official support in that language.

 

[Been Told]

I think your best bet is to petition Mike, Kier, and Ashley to create language-specific support forums on XenForo.com, and to appoint someone specifically to help them.

This is probably not the best solution, however it is likely to be the best until they have had the time to look at all their options. It would also work well with the crowdsourcing, as the user they choose could also be in charge of supervising the language.

I think that international sub-forums are only an interim solution. There should be official international communities.

If there were international forums here on xF.com there would be the expectation to get official support in that language.

I don't agree. I think that vBSEO only offer ticket support in English while still having international sub-forums.
I do think though that sub-forums are not a good final solution. There are things like search results and "what's new" that could become less usable for the non-international customers.
Unless Mike and Kier make modifications to the forum and I don't think they're going to go that far.
So all in all, once xenForo is released, an official separate international support forum should be launched. It could be run by volunteer moderators, but would still remain under the ultimate control of Kier, Mike and Ashley.

 

[jörgk]

Been,

that is not correct. vB-Seo has German Team-Members, who give Support in German.

 

[Been Told]

Been,

that is not correct. vB-Seo has German Team-Members, who give Support in German.

Thanks for the info.
Do they also offer support in French, Spanish, Turkish and Arabic? Because they have sub-forums for those languages.

 

[Cezz]

Thanks for the info.
Do they also offer support in French, Spanish, Turkish and Arabic? Because they have sub-forums for those languages.

Spanish, Turkish, Arabic and German - Yes... French at the moment is a no (though if a customer opens a ticket in French they will try using a translator first if not ask customer to speak in another language), though due to the difference in staff ratio IE every staff member speaks English there will only be 1-2 in each of the other languages response time can be a little longer etc though quality is the same.

---------

Disclaimer: I am a vBSEO staff member, though my statement above is solely as an individual and does not reflect the opinion of the company.

 

[Been Told]

Well ok, then I chose a bad example.
I think that in the long term an international seperate forum would be the best way to go anyway. Just as long as it's under xenForo's wing (read: control) and thus official.

 

[chousho]

Just wondering, but I see mentions of people saying "I will only use a professionally translated language pack".

How can language packs be that bad? Are the people doing the translating not native to that language, or just bad with grammar? Do they not fully understand the original English to be able to accurately translate it? To me it seems that if someone is fluent in both English and X language, they ought to be able to put out a good translation.

 

[bookmark]

How can language packs be that bad? Are the people doing the translating not native to that language, or just bad with grammar? Do they not fully understand the original English to be able to accurately translate it? To me it seems that if someone is fluent in both English and X language, they ought to be able to put out a good translation.

Not exactly.For example,I know the meanings of the english word,but possibly I can't find the appropriate and native words to express the meanings.

 

[Forsaken]

Not exactly.For example,I know the meanings of the english word,but possibly I can't find the appropriate and native words to express the meanings.

Thats why you work with people to find the closest representation of the word.

I'll probably work on a Japanese language pack after I get my community well underway, and this is a problem I am likely to have as well. 

 

[bookmark]

Thats why you work with people to find the closest representation of the word.

It would be better if Xen can keep an eye on the translations officially to guarantee the language package.

 

[Forsaken]

It would be better if Xen can keep an eye on the translations officially to guarantee the language package.

I gave an example of what could possibly due to have a supervised translation.

 

[Been Told]

Just wondering, but I see mentions of people saying "I will only use a professionally translated language pack".

How can language packs be that bad? Are the people doing the translating not native to that language, or just bad with grammar? Do they not fully understand the original English to be able to accurately translate it? To me it seems that if someone is fluent in both English and X language, they ought to be able to put out a good translation.

Theoretically, yes. On the other hand, it's not always a question of quality of the translation (process). A lot of the time the problem is consistency and speed of work (with crowd sourcing that point should be moot). Last but not least, not everyone that speaks a language natively is qualified to make translations. It sounds easy, but it's not that easy.
I constantly see native English speakers writing things like "irregardless", "could of", "should of" and so on. And it's not just that. Translating is not as easy as it sounds. Sometimes it can be very difficult. Many words in a language don't have counterparts in another language. And that's where it gets difficult (and where consistency is important).
Those are some of the reasons, why some German members here have a started a thread to discuss how to translate these difficult words/phrases.
Another thing is that in some languages, words and phrases tend to be longer than in English. So space can become an issue.

 

[s.molinari]

Yes, translation is much more difficult than most would imagine. Been Told has pointed out quite a few of the obsticles. I think the biggest issue is when translators try to be too literal or when they try to be too liberal. Too literal means, word for word translation. This usually is the worst kind. Too liberal means, making up their own way to explain what is in the other language to a point it makes no sense what so ever. Then there is the problem of the poor grammer or explanation in the original language. A good translator can find a mix of both between being literal and liberal, taking the words in one language and concisely translating the meaning to another. Crowdsourcing will have its difficulties with this in the short term. Over time, the translations will probably finally turn out quite usable, but only if there is a way for a smaller group to decide what should be filled into the "translation memory", which I would hope Kier and Mike will have in their system. This will make the translators life much, much easier and give the translations more of a standardization, which is a must for a good translation.

Oops, am I helping the competition?

Scott