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No access to reported Items as Admin

Discussion in 'XenForo Questions and Support' started by Bellinis, May 20, 2013.

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  1. Bellinis

    Bellinis Active Member

    For some reason I as an admin have no permission to see the reported items:
    Skodaforum.nl - Error
    You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.
    Viewing the moderation queue works without problem.

    I checked my superadmin rights and everything is enabled.

    What am I missing? :(
     
  2. Bellinis

    Bellinis Active Member

    To test I now created a new supermod and for the superadmod it works. But why not for the superadmin??
     
  3. Morgain

    Morgain Well-Known Member

    Yes I find this silly as well. You have to add yourself to the Moderators group. Not only tick the group for yourself individually but go to Users/ Moderators, add Moderator.
     
    Bellinis likes this.
  4. Bellinis

    Bellinis Active Member

    That sure is weird Morgain, but thanks! Now it works :)
    BTW, it was not necessary to tick the moderator group, just adding as a supermod was enough.
     
    Morgain likes this.
  5. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Administrators are not moderators and vice versa.
     
  6. Morgain

    Morgain Well-Known Member

    This is not intuitive and many admins have commented on it over the years.
    Perhaps it could be a permission added to the admin permissions to add Moderator abilities.
     
  7. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    It is perfectly intuitive.
    The roles are separate, as indicated by the titles and the fact that members must be actively promoted to each different role.

    Just because other forum software did it differently, that doesn't mean it was correct.
     
  8. Lisa

    Lisa Well-Known Member

    Once I got used to it being this way, I actually find it better.

    Think on it like this. You need to give someone temporary access to the ACP to do some work on your site - maybe you've hired someone to install an addon... they don't need to see the reports etc on the forum. Using XenForo's system, you can add them as an admin safe in the knowledge that you don't then need to go through and manually adjust every other setting so they can't deal with reported items on the forum.
     
    Bob, Jeremy and Chris D like this.
  9. Shelley

    Shelley Well-Known Member

    100% agree.

    If memory recalls I recall Peggy posing such a argument about this a couple of years ago and it's a route xenforo took that was away from the standard, made total sense and was intuitive (as Brogan said). I don't think it's silly, you just have to wrap the thinking around your head that not all admins have the same tasks and roles on forums.
     
    Chris D and Lisa like this.
  10. Morgain

    Morgain Well-Known Member

    Exactly. It's not a silly system, it's agood one; and it makes perfect sense - once it's explained.

    That means it's not intuitive. It needs an explanation. Which isn't there.
    Ive seen a persistent trail of queries popping up here ever since XF started with puzzled admins asking why they can't access moderation tools. As many have said it's intuitively obvious that if you're the admin in charge, you automatically have access to all abilities.
    I agree the XF design is fine. But admins need to be alerted to the necessity to make themselves mods. My suggestion that this is an admin permission covers the case.
     
  11. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    As with anything, people should take the time to educate themselves.
    http://xenforo.com/help/administrators/
     
    Jeremy, Chris D and Lisa like this.
  12. Lisa

    Lisa Well-Known Member

    If you read the instructions, like people should do with most new items they purchase before they use it, then how the admin set up works would be clear from the outset.


    heh heh.. ninja'd :D
     
    Jeremy and Chris D like this.
  13. Shelley

    Shelley Well-Known Member

    I didn't need an explanation when i first used it. But because you did does not make it it not intuitive you just didn't bother investigating further why it was "as designed" this way. But eitherway, it's a implementation I got to grips with and seen the benefits of right way, because it's intuitive.

    I've seen many people in support asking where something is when it's been right before there eyes. where a feature is in plain site does that make it less intuitive? It just exposes the fact the person couldn't be bothered to look for said feature.

    Don't forget, most support queries regarding this comes from people that are new to xenforo, they are used to an old system a different system so with a little reading and familiarising themselves with xenforo they'll see the greater benefits of this and that it offers greater, far greater flexibility.

    OMG - I've only gone and written a novel.
     
    Chris D and Lisa like this.
  14. Morgain

    Morgain Well-Known Member

    Yes of course one should read instructions. But we do it selectively not wholesale. We consult the excellent handbook at point of need.
    Point of need arises when intuitive use doesn't work. In this case as noted it is not intuitive that the admin in charge of their own board is barred from certain functions.
    It makes sense, it's good practice, as you say, but to many it is not obvious or intuitive.

    I could reply that just because you "got it" doesn't make it obvious either. Sure there will be some who see it straight away. Humans are not identical so "intuitive" has variations.
    But if it were just me that found this counter intuitive, there would not have been a persistent trail of queries popping up here ever since XF started with puzzled admins asking why ... as I have already noted before you replied which you seem to have overlooked. This thread is an example.
    I certainly wouldn't be suggesting this needs a little attention in the admincp if this issue were merely my one small stupidity.
    ................................................................................................

    Om investigating further as three of you have indicated,

    1) It's pointless to read the whole handbook before doing anything. That would mean reading a mass of irrelevant stuff (to you). None of us are going to read the whole book just in case - you wouldn't absorb and remember most of it anyway.
    2) Having tried to use the functions without success the question arises WHERE to in investigate?
    Look at Permissions for myself? nothing there.
    Look at Permissions for Admins? nothing there. All ticked yes - including Moderators stuff. Total brain frazzle.
    Look around slightly randomly ain the admincp ...
    Search this board here ... and if you're lucky ... but searching is an art especially here with that default "this forum only" throwing up false negatives.
    After that what? The handbook is by no means obvious. On the forumlist it's tucked way down the bottom and separated off in a different site section for heavens sake. To many admins it's not at all obvious and doesnt exist - this has been raised a number of times.
    Also to many admins admin puzzles are not frequent. Even if we once stumbled on the handboook unlike Brogan we don't work with it daily as a reference - 6 months ago a brief glimpse is long forgot.

    So why not just add a note somewhere obvious AT POINT OF USE - as so many other things are added in the XF admincp, on this?
    Mods.png

    Always better to work suppoort on how people actually are rather than how we'd like 'em to be. I'd rather my clients were sensible and resourceful and just went on looking for hours without bothering me, too. Fact is they don't and aren't going to.
     
    Bellinis likes this.
  15. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    The clue is in the name; administrate <> moderate.
     
    Andrej likes this.
  16. Lisa

    Lisa Well-Known Member

    With that kind of attitude, it's perfectly clear why you struggle to use the system. If you don't read the instructions, then you've only got yourself to blame when you don't understand how something works.

    Would you buy a new phone and not read over how to use it.. or are you one of those people who buy a Samsung Galaxy S3/4 and expect it to work exactly like the iPhone and then whine when it doesn't?
     
    Lycaon, Jeremy and Andrej like this.
  17. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    The separate administrator and moderator roles isn't something that is unique to Xenforo, other forum software works in this way too. I came from phpBB and it was the same there.

    Personally I prefer to keep these separate as the needs are very different. Moderators don't necessarily need admin rights nor vice versa. On one forum that I managed, we had exactly this case, whereby I had admin access to manage the site but I was not a moderator, as that was done by another elected group of people.
     
  18. Morgain

    Morgain Well-Known Member

    Sigh. I don't think it's fair or kind to make it difficult for a lot of other people because you personally have no problem. That just isn't what softwrae support is about.
    Nor is software support and design of point-of-use guidance about what seems easy to experienced users. Experienced users like you and I are IRRELEVANT here.
    The queries that arise come from new users. Who XF has a duty to help.

    Nor is it nice, kind or sensible to crow that you knew all about it it. So? A great many queries coming from new users seem silly and obvious. New users have a heck of a lot to absorb in a pretty overloading and confusing experience. Even those with some experience of setting up forums ask questions that seem obvious to us. That's just part of doing a learning curve on something new.

    I've never heard such rubbish as the recommendation to read the whole manual before starting use!
    There's tons and tons of stuff in that manual (and in others about gadgets) which is irrelevant to a very new user and will only overload and confuse.
    A great deal of it only makes sense once you start trying to do things. Some experimenting is necessary to find out what's what. When you do hit a block it is often by no means clear where in a manual to look.
    Reading a manual can sometimes help - it can just as often cause confusion by presenting things that seem relevant when they are not. Often the manual sets out what differnt controls/ byuttons do. But the block does not present in a way that indicates what function the problem is about. That's why we have support forums.
    At the start you don't know which parts you do need to read, apart from installation, until you start usage. Admins needs are so varied on something as flexible as a good forum software like XF that a manual just cannot give a clear linear sequence.
    An interactive multivalent online manual might be an exceellent idea in theory to address this issue. But creating it would take time which no one has, except maybe as a 3rd party dev (paid?) and keeping it updated would be very complex.

    The whole concept of INTUITIVE and USER FRIENDLY and POINT OF USE is about NOT requiring people to study through a long manual or helpfile. For a moderate size addon yes but not a software the size and complexity of XF.
    INTUITIVE = the software is obvious in its functions to the user ie what to click, even if they are not very bright, and tackling something very new to them. The interface is clean, uncluttered, and places resources to hand. The software is designed to cover most of the possible assumptions a new user will make.
    USER FRIENDLY = the software is uncomplicated in presentation , even though it may be actually very complex. It has clear controls and pathways. The developer does not assume the user sees it the same way s/he does and has a grasp of user perceptions. The developer does not design for the sophisticate, nor for the same mindset as their own.
    POINT OF USE = Necessary information on how to use is there on the page where the usage takes place. Or it is one click away on a clearly marked link in the precise zone of the page it relates to.

    All three criteria, intuitive, user friendly, and point of use, all aim to avoid the user reading the manual, to get them into active and advanced use as fast and as comfortably as possible.

    Helping new users, or users who assume a different pathway is difficult BECAUSE it goes outside the comfort zone of our own way of tackling things. Therein lies the exasperation and fascination of support work, and design of intuitive, user friendly, and point of use software,
     
  19. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Completely disagree.
    The manual covers every aspect of the forum software and as such, every single page is relevant.

    I read every manual for everything I own or use from cover to cover.
     
    Jeremy, Sheldon and Lisa like this.
  20. Andrej

    Andrej Well-Known Member

    Actually, from reading manuals I learn about things I have never through have existed... :)
     
    Lisa likes this.
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