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[Peggy]

Not all mainstream media is bad (both U.S. and non-U.S.), but you also shouldn't take everything at face value. Do your own research, check out multiple sources and draw your own conclusions.

As someone who has served in the U.S. military, the rest of your post comes off somewhat offensive. It's not like there are just a bunch of mindless Soldiers / Marines / Sailors / Airman over there gunning down civilians (though, yes, there have been a lot of civilian casualties). Also, last I checked the U.S. wasn't the only country who has sent troops to Iraq/Afghanistan (many of which have been engaged themselves).

As for body count, I'm not sure where you're getting your facts, but the civilian count includes those killed by allies and insurgents (i.e., not just U.S. troops), and most were 1-3 individuals in small, but frequent incidents (yes, that's still one too many, and it starts to add up). The logs revealed about 15,000 extra civilian deaths that weren't pubicly reported before (but, even then, those logs include deaths that are not directly related to the war -- i.e., no troops involved). In total, around 156,000 deaths (civilian and enemy). That's still a lot, regardless of how many are civilians or not.

Personally, I don't agree with either of these wars (never have) and think we should cut our loses and pull out. Most, if not all ,of these civilian loses are not intentional though. Civilian body counts usually tend to outweigh the enemy body counts in just about every war, since there are usually far more civilians (especially in urban warfare). In combat, there's not a lot of time to react and make decisions. Unfortunately, those reactions and decisions are not always right.

Thank you Jason. I could not agree more with your post.

 

[FreshFroot]

I am?? Could have fooled me.......

How so? Because I have a different view point and live in a different place?

But hey if you don't want to be friends due to that.. then that's fine.

I know I don't hate a friend, who sees things differently than me. Heck. I'm sure Mike and Kier see things differently and disagree. You don't see them going I'm not talking to you or I hate you.

That;'s the point of friends.. not always to agree but also to disagree. So we can see things from a different point of view.

But anyways.. it's your call.

 

[FreshFroot]

Not all mainstream media is bad (both U.S. and non-U.S.), but you also shouldn't take everything at face value. Do your own research, check out multiple sources and draw your own conclusions.

As someone who has served in the U.S. military, the rest of your post comes off somewhat offensive. It's not like there are just a bunch of mindless Soldiers / Marines / Sailors / Airman over there gunning down civilians (though, yes, there have been a lot of civilian casualties). Also, last I checked the U.S. wasn't the only country who has sent troops to Iraq/Afghanistan (many of which have been engaged themselves).

As for body count, I'm not sure where you're getting your facts, but the civilian count includes those killed by allies and insurgents (i.e., not just U.S. troops), and most were 1-3 individuals in small, but frequent incidents (yes, that's still one too many, and it starts to add up). The logs revealed about 15,000 extra civilian deaths that weren't pubicly reported before (but, even then, those logs include deaths that are not directly related to the war -- i.e., no troops involved). In total, around 156,000 deaths (civilian and enemy). That's still a lot, regardless of how many are civilians or not.

Personally, I don't agree with either of these wars (never have) and think we should cut our loses and pull out. Most, if not all ,of these civilian loses are not intentional though. Civilian body counts usually tend to outweigh the enemy body counts in just about every war, since there are usually far more civilians (especially in urban warfare). In combat, there's not a lot of time to react and make decisions. Unfortunately, those reactions and decisions are not always right.

My intent is not to say the US troops are terrible.

heck there are some, who ACTUALLY care about people there. And WANT to make a difference.

But there are also those, who like to kill people for fun. Like the 2 soldiers who went into a home and KILLED a WHOLE family. Yes.. FOR FUN! They thought it would be fun like a video game.. kicking doors down seeing people beg for their life and kill them. A WHOLE FAMILY...

And what happens to these guys when they get back. "Oh.. he;s mentally ill and did it" What kind of excuse is that?

Wikileaks EXPOSES these things, so the public KNOWS what really went on. Otherwise hey... we wouldn't know or care if a family died there or not. We would have no idea what the soldiers are doing out there.

As I stated, there are some GREAT soldiers who protect familes, kids and areas that are being hit by the enemy. They are helping kids learn and be safe etc..

It's not ALL bad. My argument is Wikileaks LETS us see the war without the US Media Filter. We see the REAL deal.... which the governments wants to keep aside not to alarm the public or have them go against the government.

 

[iTuN3r]

That's cause you have no come backs.

That's all you ever learned was how to insult someone. You can't even make up your own claim.

Probably didn't even graduate. Drop out!

Just go join the military so you can go kill more innocent people. That's how you are like anyways.

Well i hate Politics cause i belong to Politicians Family

I hardly insult anyone unless someone deserves it ... sorry if you didn't liked it .

LOL about my education oh well i am doing my computer Engineering and i am almost there to get my Degree be happy about it now .

I know many more families,friends who serve in Army and i feel sorry you will never understand them or their life what they have to go through .

It's easy to Talk in such forums but very hard to face when you have to face the reality . It's not easy to kill anyone go out their and see the reality . Oh Yes i really was interested to serve but some of my personal reasons stopped me back for good of my family . Staying all day in PC and reading those conspiracy theories does brainwashes those people who cannot deal with truth .

 

[FreshFroot]

No defence personnel are going to say what goes on... as we all sign secrecy contracts on entering the military which don't stop on leaving the military. What I will say, and is no secret, what happens on operations is not what is shown to the public via the media... well, very little anyway. People don't want to see the truth on TV... ask any soldier who has been in such operations! What really happens and what is portrayed... usually very different things. You would be naive to think otherwise.

True, but people are always caught up on the media. maybe that's the publics fault. But so many people tune into CNN and what not. And it's as if what ever they say IS and IS Only nothing but the truth.....

So they believe the media more than anything else.

Some people can't imagine things like torture or what not. It doesn't happen here or anywhere these days... When wars start it's the #1 common thing. And especially the newer generations have no idea what war is like. Most war veterans from WWII etc.. are gone. Those were the days, when everyone KNEW what war mean't and how terrible it can be.

 

[Peggy]

How so? Because I have a different view point and live in a different place?

But hey if you don't want to be friends due to that.. then that's fine.

I know I don't hate a friend, who sees things differently than me. Heck. I'm sure Mike and Kier see things differently and disagree. You don't see them going I'm not talking to you or I hate you.

That;'s the point of friends.. not always to agree but also to disagree. So we can see things from a different point of view.

But anyways.. it's your call.

Good grief you are so good at taking things out of context. Did you see anywhere here where I said I hate you? Nope. Did I say I'm not talking to you? Nope.
I don't care that you have a different point of view, live in a different place, or whether you wear fuzzy socks or no socks, or smoke cigarettes or cigars, or drink iced tea or lemonade or anything else.

What I DO care about is when you read posts and see things there that weren't even said, and when you insult someone and make it their fault.
If you're going to comment on my posts, which is absolutely your right, at least read them correctly and get it right. That is all I ask.

 

[FreshFroot]

Well i hate Politics cause i belong to Politicians Family

I hardly insult anyone unless someone deserves it ... sorry if you didn't liked it .

LOL about my education oh well i am doing my computer Engineering and i am almost there to get my Degree be happy about it now .

I know many more families,friends who serve in Army and i feel sorry you will never understand them or their life what they have to go through .

It's easy to Talk in such forums but very hard to face when you have to face the reality . It's not easy to kill anyone go out their and see the reality . Oh Yes i really was interested to serve but some of my personal reasons stopped me back for good of my family . Staying all day in PC and reading those conspiracy theories does brainwashes those people who cannot deal with truth .

Insults don't hurt.. it's just words.

They had a choice, they didn't have to serve the army if they didn't want to. But then again.. I don't know what type of people they are. I don't know if they are the type who WANT to help people, or want to go around killing for fun.

Ah... it showed it was VERY easy for someone mostly younger soldiers to go around killing families for fun.

 

[Peggy]

My intent is not to say the US troops are terrible.

Yet you did.

But there are also those, who like to kill people for fun. Like the 2 soldiers who went into a home and KILLED a WHOLE family. Yes.. FOR FUN! They thought it would be fun like a video game.. kicking doors down seeing people beg for their life and kill them. A WHOLE FAMILY...

I guess you didn't read the accounts of US soldiers, and other countries soldiers who were beheaded, decapitated, brutally tortured, raped, etc.
No, of course not.

 

[FreshFroot]

Good grief you are so good at taking things out of context. Did you see anywhere here where I said I hate you? Nope. Did I say I'm not talking to you? Nope.
I don't care that you have a different point of view, live in a different place, or whether you wear fuzzy socks or no socks, or smoke cigarettes or cigars, or drink iced tea or lemonade or anything else.

What I DO care about is when you read posts and see things there that weren't even said, and when you insult someone and make it their fault.
If you're going to comment on my posts, which is absolutely your right, at least read them correctly and get it right. That is all I ask.

Nope, I assumed based off your earlier comment.

 

[Kier]

I only got to page three of this before I decided I'd seen more than enough.