How long will it take for xF to catch vB on the development side

[DieselMinded]

I dont own the vb4 board i built it and maintain it for a client and i dont like it.

In order to be a big fan of the develpers of xF you have to give credit where credit is due for there work on vB

 

[ManagerJosh]

I'm thinking Josh was maybe trying to say you aren't responsible for the mess there now in terms of the decisions they've taken with v4. e.g. you'd previously posted and proposed a different style for vB4, which wasn't adopted.

It might be vB3 under the covers, but what they've slapped on top and the business decisions taken weren't yours

Then you would make a false argument, for if you strip away the vBulletin 4 style and bootstrapper, you would find that fundamentally the vBulletin 4 forum code is unchanged in a significant way from that of vBulletin 3.x.

Sorry I should have been more precise about my earlier post. I was rushing to finish up one thing and run out the door. What tickedon said is spot on. Kier, I do realize that vBulletin 4 is nothing more but vBulletin 3 at its core with some fancy whistles and gadgets slapped on in haste.

For the most part, I look at xenForo and I look at vBulletin 4. I see the outcomes of two very huge business decisions. Those decisions to me speaks wonders as we can see people taking a step back and saying enough is enough of this nonsense.

Decisions you made for vBulletin I view them for vBulletin 3. They works right and they worked well. Decisions for vBulletin 4 did not work. You argued for them not to happen, and they still happened. While you have code inside vBulletin 4, I can not hold you responsible. The buck didn't stop with you.

 

[CTXMedia]

I wouldn't say xF is superior just yet.

It will be, at some point in the near future, but there's still a lot that needs adding to xF to give it the depth of control that you have in vB3/4 and IPB3.

The beauty of xF though is that it is being rapidly developed without the usual corporate "big wheel" constraints, and it has already - in a very short space of time - amassed a large, technically knowledgeable community of apps. programmers, skinners, experienced and successful forum Admins; people who can help to move xF forward (alongside the programmers); people who have no hesitation it pushing the latest beta through its paces on their servers and reporting back; people who are more than willing to create image sets and skins for everyone to use; plugin writers turning up from all corners of the forums world wanting to get involved; etc.

There's massive potential for xF - MASSIVE! - and one day, in the not too distant future, I believe xF will take the "defacto forum software" crown.

Cheers,
Shaun

 

[anotheralias]

It's the Mods that will make all the difference. Even with vB 3 (which I still love) that was what took it from good to great, for me: the huge amount of Mods available. No forum software could cater to every last person's needs, it's the modding community that fills that gap.

 

[Shelley]

It's the Mods that will make all the difference. Even with vB 3 (which I still love) that was what took it from good to great, for me: the huge amount of Mods available. No forum software could cater to every last person's needs, it's the modding community that fills that gap.

Yup, couldn't agree more. I've talked to atleast 15 developers and they love developing for xenforo and prefer it over vb so that in itself is a very good sign that a healthy modding community isn't far off.

 

[a legacy reborn]

Yup, couldn't agree more. I've talked to atleast 15 developers and they love developing for xenforo and prefer it over vb so that in itself is a very good sign that a healthy modding community isn't far off.

I say once xF 1.0 is gold there will be tons of more mods. People are waiting to see if they should develop a certain mod or if it might be added or if it might become incompatible, etc. I know once I take a serious look into the xF code I will begin to develop for it.

 

[Sador]

One of my users was beta testing my xF test board while I still have a vB4 board up. She begged me to finally upgrade it to xF because it was so much better.

 

[Saeed]

I say once xF 1.0 is gold there will be tons of more mods. People are waiting to see if they should develop a certain mod or if it might be added or if it might become incompatible, etc. I know once I take a serious look into the xF code I will begin to develop for it.

That is exactly what I believe shall happen and have my fingers crossed in the hope that that a couple of mods which I need to port over to XenForo become available soon.

 

[Danny.VBT]

It depends how you qualify "superiority." vBulletin has a larger customer base, more modifications available, definite stable financial backing. But the company has failed to adapt to evolving technologies and aesthetics, and they had a perfect opportunity with vBulletin 4.0, which was an utter failure in my opinion.

XenForo on the other hand is a start-up, but they are re-imagining what forum software can be and are in trend with current practices (both in terms of front-end and back-end). No one thought Google could usurp the SE giants in the 90's but look at them now. I have high hopes for the software and company.

 

[Digital Doctor]

if you strip away the vBulletin 4 style and bootstrapper, you would find that fundamentally the vBulletin 4 forum code is unchanged in a significant way from that of vBulletin 3.x.

In what way is Xenforo superior to vB 4 ?

vB4 needed a rewrite to become better.
That didn't happen.
Xenforo is an example of what IB could have done with vB4, but didn't.
IB better totally rewrite vBulletin for vB5 or the HOARDS of vB3 users will be ex-vBulletin users.

 

[anotheralias]

Yup, couldn't agree more. I've talked to atleast 15 developers and they love developing for xenforo and prefer it over vb so that in itself is a very good sign that a healthy modding community isn't far off.

Great! Because I need a slew of them if I want to convert the other board, and most of them aren't something someone's going to take on if they're aiming for the biggest crowd-pleasers.

 

[xenDach]

Then you would make a false argument, for if you strip away the vBulletin 4 style and bootstrapper, you would find that fundamentally the vBulletin 4 forum code is unchanged in a significant way from that of vBulletin 3.x.

And don't forget the cruddy new search through supposedy all content, which is being reworked.....again! I don't think you'd want to be related to that either.

xenDach

 

[ragtek]

I say once xF 1.0 is gold there will be tons of more mods. People are waiting to see if they should develop a certain mod or if it might be added or if it might become incompatible, etc. I know once I take a serious look into the xF code I will begin to develop for it.

People(like me) will always wait (/never ever create some special mods) without a roadmap. (or maybe only with an great contract to make it sure that the work for the client was not in vain)

There's no difference between beta/gold/1.1/1.3....
YOu're never sure, if the add-on you're developing will be included in the next version..

 

[Kier]

And don't forget the cruddy new search through supposedy all content, which is being reworked.....again! I don't think you'd want to be related to that either.

xenDach

Ah, yes I'd forgotten about that. It's worth saying that fundamentally, the concept of vB4's search engine is sound, it's just the front-end implementation that seems to really fall short.

 

[xenDach]

How long will it take XF to catch vB?

I'd say, a year to two years. IMHO, some things need to happen though.

1. As many have mentioned and I agree, XF needs to have just a bit more functionality to be a competitive/ comparable product to the vB Forum Classic or IPB Forum. I could list some of the missing functions, but that would surely get me into an argument of what is "needed/ wanted" and what isn't. I think we can agree, XF still needs some more basic functionality. However, that said, what XF does deliver now is superior to vB and IPB. Hands down! It is just faster, sleeker, smarter and more handsome to put it simply. That is my personal opinion.

Actually, I don't even think the level of functionality should also be really "comparable" over time, as I hope Kier and Mike will also start to go new ways, making XF actually a blue ocean. I don't really want them to just copy the competition to be "comparable". I would personally want XF to continue to stand out from the rest and I hope Kier and Mike will surprise us with things we actually hadn't expected. I know they can do it and this is where vB und IPB should watch out!

2. There needs to be a better place for add-on/ mod devs and style designers to promote their XenForo mods/ works. The forums are fine for now, for a start, but we are in a "plug-in" world nowadays and this business model has made many a company's products very popular. It helped vB too. vB.org, on top of the talents of people like Kier, Mike, Scott and some of the other devs that worked on vB during the past "good" years, is what got vB such popularity. The one couldn't have done as good as it had without the other. I feel XF can't be much different in this respect, but could stand out much better, with a better "Mod Platform" for the XF devs. They want to invest their time and be able to get recognition, to help the cause of "XenForo" and maybe even make a penny or two at it. There is already a large crew of devs working on mods for XF. I feel they really need to have a place to meet and exchange and support their work with the XF customers. This in turn would make the XF product much more attractive, very fast.

3. Internet Brands needs to back off from or lose their lawsuits . One or the other. These lawsuits are a hinderance for XF for sure. Without these rediculously stupid legal issues, XF would have a much more open market. Having the lawsuits gone will also free up those especially unhappy vB3 customers, who are avoiding moving to vB4, because they feel it is unworthy of upgrading their current forums with all the quality issues and lack of pizazz. XF doesn't lack pizazz. It is just getting rolling.

4. The customer's trust in the XF team's ability to be creative and deliver quality must stay alive. This trust is actually something I doubt will go away at all as long as Kier and Mike (and who ever else may join the team) are confident about their abilities, don't get too bogged down with things other than being creative with their work and they can continue to make a living with XF. This is something I really hope will continue to happen, because the forum scene really needs some fresh air.

And.......XenForo is, IMHO, the only product really delivering it.

Keep up the good, no GREAT work guys!

xenDach

 

[Anthony Parsons]

So how long will it take this team to make xF superior ?

Let me put it this way... VB is a good product, but aged, bloated and needs a rebuild; not so upward though on the owners of it. When with VB, I had no more than around 5 mods ever installed at a time, because the sheer clashes between them was unbelievable... not necessarily with the mod itself, but the way the mod interacted with the core.

XF... whole different story from experience... been running XF on production site weeks after its initial public release. I have now 20+ mods installed, not one single mod has affected another negatively. The way mods integrate with the core, that alone is worth the change. I am loading mod upon mod into XF just to see if I can get things to go pear shape like VB used to do with a few mods... nothing yet. The core keeps everything isolated, so mods aren't interfering with other mods... which I love this little bit by itself.

 

[Sador]

4. The customer's trust in the XF team's ability to be creative and deliver quality must stay alive. This trust is actually something I doubt will go away at all as long as Kier and Mike (and who ever else may join the team) are confident about their abilities, don't get too bogged down with things other than being creative with their work and they can continue to make a living with XF. This is something I really hope will continue to happen, because the forum scene really needs some fresh air.

This would be a surprisingly important point. I've been here pretty much from the start, I have seen what a buzz it created that "Kier might be making some new forum software", all speculations and hopes, and how quickly people came here within the first few days. I have also seen how many people, people hanging around here on xF, people hanging around at vBulletin, and even competition like Matt from IP commented on the lawsuit, stood up for the devs and xF. Pledging to support them financially, should that be needed.

To be honest, I think that if it were any random guys trying to get something with xF, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a buzz. I think that as long as people keep their trust in the devs, and they keep deserving it, xF will rise incredibly. What will happen if they lose that, because they get arrogant, or try to screw us over with weird contract changes, lack of improvement and greediness? I think we all know a website that is currently experiencing what will happen in that case.

 

[Walter]

It's worth saying that fundamentally, the concept of vB4's search engine is sound, it's just the front-end implementation that seems to really fall short.

Yes - but the front-end gets more and more important the more user you have.

I can't imagine the number of hours spent by all vb admins working around usability problems and telling users how to use the forum.

So far I am very satisfied with the way the features in Xenforo are implemented.

 

[Kier]

Yes - but the front-end gets more and more important the more user you have.

Absolutely right.

 

[Fred Sherman]

I dont own the vb4 board i built it and maintain it for a client and i dont like it.

In order to be a big fan of the develpers of xF you have to give credit where credit is due for there work on vB

Thats a bit of a la carte thinking, my friend. Would not you also have to recognize that they had a vision for VB3 that went unrealized? Would you not have to conclude then that xF is their way of working towards that vision? Finally, you would see that they are building a new product with an best of class framework to enable them to realzie that vision much quicker from a ground-up development effort rather than attempting to patch together 10 year old code using 10 year old practices and 10 years worth of bloat?

For me, the decision isn't what xF is today vs. what vB is today. It is an investment in potential for 6 monthys from now, a year from now, or 5 years from now.

You are correct. I walked away from vB after 8 1/2 years and I did it with a great amount of trepidation. But once I made that leap of faith in Kier and Mike, I have never looked back and I am not disappointed. If anything, I am disappointed in the wasted potential vB once had.

One more point in xF's favor? Look at the names of the add-on authors. Recognize some of them? I do. They are in the company of some of the best mod authors for VB and IPB. That alone should speak volumes.

Another? Consider the ease of upgrades of which others have spoken. Not just add-ons, but styles as well.

I could continue, but either the pain you feel managing vB is great enough to overcome your fear of change, or it isn't. Thats the question you have to ask yourself. No amount of testimony on our part will change that reality.