Hello Developers: What support do you need from Xenforo ? I want more from you and more of you !

[EQnoble]

First off this is just a civil battle of opinions DD so let me just that that and get it out of the way right off the bat before jumping in the volley

Certainly The Resource Manager will bring some needed organization to the addon section (ie. categorization). It is something that Xenforo customers and Pre-Sales people will like ... but it is it likely to be something that brings in new developers ? I wouldn't think so, but I'd love to be surprised.

...but of course it will...as it is a resource library of sorts I imagine it is going to be much more navigable than the current situation which A. will look quite professional B. will function as the index of a resource pool much better than a thread list can do alone as far as file management and more &C. will have more people seeing more products faster and easier which is a basic marketing strategy that doesn't need explaining and having a management system for all of the resources kind of automatically sets up that strategy.

Developers who do it for a living go to where the money is at...it is very simple. They have a system to display their product or relevant information and the potential customer base is here already with an organized way of getting and finding products.

To me no matter how you look at it, having the resource manager is going to have nothing but positive effects ...from a business sense, a forum user sense, a forum admin's sense .....it just just makes sense.

 

[Paul]

Personally I would like to see at least 5 official guides for developers - starting with the basics going up. No need to cover things like PHP or mysql (which can be picked up elsewhere) but a few guides that by the end of any reasonable developer would be able to create good idiomatic plug-ins/mods for XF.

I'd like the same. I would love to start creating add-ons for both my site and for others, however wouldn't have a clue where to start

 

[Stevebullman]

Certainly The Resource Manager will bring some needed organization to the addon section (ie. categorization). It is something that Xenforo customers and Pre-Sales people will like ... but it is it likely to be something that brings in new developers ? I wouldn't think so, but I'd love to be surprised.

I know this is an old thread, but its new to me...

Seems to me you're trying to make your point in the wrong place...ie posting at xenforo that more people should develop for it. I know nothing about developing, but it seems to be, more demand will create the need for more developing.

Perhaps you should focus your attention on promoting the xenforo software outside of these walls, and subsequently watch the developers come on board as the software user base grows

Just my 2 cents for what its worth

 

[Robbo]

There is nothing wrong. What they are doing now is perfectly fine. I used to work on SMF and moving to XenForo makes my life WAY easier, makes me more productive and enables me to created very polished add-ons without having to pay much attention to actually polishing them... XenForo does that for me. I don't know why people expect more developers or add-ons. The main thing is time, people don't have time (like myself) to make everything that is requested. Also the market is fairly small for XenForo right now, which I am sure is increasing very fast (relative to how many people actually switch software). Everything will fix itself as time goes on.

And the whole making add-on guides. I say don't even make them. It will mean only experienced developers will be here. Experienced developers will get past the learning curve very fast. When I opened XenForo for the first time it didn't take long at all before I understood everything. They use a proven framework, a heap of proven design patters and nice self documenting code. Then you have the easy templating system and ACP editor (as in adding new permissions, options etc). I haven't seen any forum software (or CMS/Blog) that has code as easy to work with and get into as this. The only other project I think might come close is http://www.pimcore.org/ which is also built on the Zend Framework.

Basically what I am saying is this. Developers (the good ones) don't look for software with guides, pages of documentation or examples (however these can come in handy). They want a well written framework (XenForo isn't just a forum, it provides a powerful development framework as well) that does all this for you. When I write my add-ons I get all my documentation from code, my guides from XenForo modules (so to speak, as in a feature sets like the node list) and I get my example code from every file in the source.
A few weeks ago we decided we would move to WHCMS to power our shop/client side of mercenary design (still in progress) and I wanted to do a full on integration even using XenForo templates for it. Then I noticed their code is encrypted. This leaves me with some crappy API webpage to go off of and basically means I have to spend a lot more time integrating (which will now be a much simpler integration with a theme and some forum user linking like xenforo.com does). So I am making an inferior website compared to what I was originally planning because all the tools given to me by simply writing self documenting code are gone so superior plan would take a lot longer to execute... time is money.
XenForo does 99.9% of things right! The other 0.1% are things that are there just for now until they get time to make it properly.

And I think that is the end of my little rant...

 

[Digital Doctor]

Notice most developers are fine with the rate that things are going, and there are actually many developers here already. A lot of them are busy with their own releases, or with client work themselves.

I do agree that xF needs MORE developers/coders.

There is nothing wrong. What they are doing now is perfectly fine.

I'm glad all the developers are happy.

Except this thread says that sales are slow and piracy is an issue.

 

[Morgain]

Think there's a difference between suggesting XF is failing to support devs and looking at how devs could be happier and supported to greater efficiency. This thread doesn't seem to do the first but the second.
It may be that nothing can be done to improve the dev environment - but it's worth running checks just in case. The backend is wonderful we hear, integrating addons centrally here onsite is genius, having mods who understand the addons is superb, and the Resource Manager is solidly good community service.
It can still b e asked could there be more? Just worth checking.

Seems there are several possible queries - market potential? - coding? - support? - training? - client liaison?

In terms of a bigger market potential I confidently believe that's now on the way. KAM are market gold and as they produce their golden eggs it'll go out viral like wildfire and will bring those registrations in. Mike's already started it off with his new anti-spam registrations and that's just a tiny step. We all remember these guys in the first year so very soon now ... viral ... wildfire ...

I've seen that XF is dev friendly in its framework, commenting, admin structure and a whole lot of other things I don't know too much about. Because this has been said by devs.
But it could still be asked could the templates or backend stuff get any adjustments to make dev work easier? Just because it's brilliant, better than all the others already, doesnt mean it cannot go better.Dev time is so precious that any time saved for them benefits all.
For example in working on templates I find some a bit time consuming to track - notification emails being a case in point, as they are made up of a patchwork of parts that make them slow and finicky to edit. Not so slow for really good devs but still slower than need be. Perhaps unavoidable, but if areas like that could be simplified, more approachable it all makes the design and coding faster.

My main suggestion though is about client support. Currently an addon gets just one thread for support work. These can be long, and full of duplicates. Us punters get put off wading through them and that generates more duplicate queries, and that is timewasting and frustrating for the dev doing support. If they do it they are not coiding, if they don't do it they lose clients that way.
Couldn;t there be a FAQ system for devs to use instead of one Discussion thread?
Like I ask a question and it goes on their addon FAQ page with its answer, possibly a thread followup in that topic area. Then I dont need to plod through stuff on installation, or conflict with another addon, or with a theme, or tweaking the look, if my query is none of those.
Dev time is so precious I want to protect it but I also dislike reading through loads of pages of support wsting MY time before I can post. Not everyone bothers to do that.

A few people have suggested guides and training. Maybe room for controversy here - yes really good devs don't want it. But medium and little devs do. If interested admins and associates could more easily learn how to do small addons for themselves and each other, that would clear some of the clutter currently placing far too high demand on our devs. They just never have enough time so why not free them for the more interesting, bigger projects?
Some trainees will not amount to anything but some will do good work and benefit everyone. After all there's plenty of work for all who want it.

Lastly many devs are great at the coding but have only some or almost no experience in client liaison. It's a whole different science and devs are often backroom workers who don't naturally have the talent for it. So I think this needs opening up and discussing more.
The terms of a contract, what is fair and practical, and what is unfair demand from either side, and how to remedy when it goes wrong, are not obvious. More experienced devs and clients alike could share best practice and benefit everyone. Because when this goes wrong it creates a lot of timewasting messages and stress. When done right it really smooths that dev path - again dev time is precious.

 

[Sheldon]

Lastly many devs are great at the coding but have only some or almost no experience in client liaison. It's a whole different science and devs are often backroom workers who don't naturally have the talent for it.

That is a bit of a generalization, don't ya think? Talk about putting a sour taste in a developers mouth...

 

[Shelley]

Think there's a difference between suggesting XF is failing to support devs and looking at how devs could be happier and supported to greater efficiency. This thread doesn't seem to do the first but the second.
It may be that nothing can be done to improve the dev environment - but it's worth running checks just in case. The backend is wonderful we hear, integrating addons centrally here onsite is genius, having mods who understand the addons is superb, and the Resource Manager is solidly good community service.
It can still b e asked could there be more? Just worth checking.

Seems there are several possible queries - market potential? - coding? - support? - training? - client liaison?

In terms of a bigger market potential I confidently believe that's now on the way. KAM are market gold and as they produce their golden eggs it'll go out viral like wildfire and will bring those registrations in. Mike's already started it off with his new anti-spam registrations and that's just a tiny step. We all remember these guys in the first year so very soon now ... viral ... wildfire ...

I've seen that XF is dev friendly in its framework, commenting, admin structure and a whole lot of other things I don't know too much about. Because this has been said by devs.
But it could still be asked could the templates or backend stuff get any adjustments to make dev work easier? Just because it's brilliant, better than all the others already, doesnt mean it cannot go better.Dev time is so precious that any time saved for them benefits all.
For example in working on templates I find some a bit time consuming to track - notification emails being a case in point, as they are made up of a patchwork of parts that make them slow and finicky to edit. Not so slow for really good devs but still slower than need be. Perhaps unavoidable, but if areas like that could be simplified, more approachable it all makes the design and coding faster.

My main suggestion though is about client support. Currently an addon gets just one thread for support work. These can be long, and full of duplicates. Us punters get put off wading through them and that generates more duplicate queries, and that is timewasting and frustrating for the dev doing support. If they do it they are not coiding, if they don't do it they lose clients that way.
Couldn;t there be a FAQ system for devs to use instead of one Discussion thread?
Like I ask a question and it goes on their addon FAQ page with its answer, possibly a thread followup in that topic area. Then I dont need to plod through stuff on installation, or conflict with another addon, or with a theme, or tweaking the look, if my query is none of those.
Dev time is so precious I want to protect it but I also dislike reading through loads of pages of support wsting MY time before I can post. Not everyone bothers to do that.

A few people have suggested guides and training. Maybe room for controversy here - yes really good devs don't want it. But medium and little devs do. If interested admins and associates could more easily learn how to do small addons for themselves and each other, that would clear some of the clutter currently placing far too high demand on our devs. They just never have enough time so why not free them for the more interesting, bigger projects?
Some trainees will not amount to anything but some will do good work and benefit everyone. After all there's plenty of work for all who want it.

Lastly many devs are great at the coding but have only some or almost no experience in client liaison. It's a whole different science and devs are often backroom workers who don't naturally have the talent for it. So I think this needs opening up and discussing more.
The terms of a contract, what is fair and practical, and what is unfair demand from either side, and how to remedy when it goes wrong, are not obvious. More experienced devs and clients alike could share best practice and benefit everyone. Because when this goes wrong it creates a lot of timewasting messages and stress. When done right it really smooths that dev path - again dev time is precious.

Damn That was a good read. And nicely said Morgain so much so you've given me an idea for a suggestion which I'll add in the resource manager suggestions in a moment. Excellent Post.

 

[tyteen4a03]

As an add-on developer newbie, what we need is XenForo Development for Dummies. I switched from vBulletin and the MVC design of XenForo, while supposed to be robust, is simply confusing for me at first glance.

 

[Shelley]

As an add-on developer newbie, what we need is XenForo Development for Dummies. I switched from vBulletin and the MVC design of XenForo, while supposed to be robust, is simply confusing for me at first glance.

I remember the first time I used Photoshop. I almost crapped my pants and ran away from it cowering in the corner like a little scared pup.

 

[tyteen4a03]

I remember the first time I used Photoshop. I almost crapped my pants and ran away from it cowering in the corner like a little scared pup.

Me right now on XenForo. Then I started looking at Waindigo's addons and copied pieces here and there and bam, I (pretend to have) learnt something

 

[Shelley]

Me right now on XenForo. Then I started looking at Waindigo's addons and copied pieces here and there and bam, I (pretend to have) learnt something

It all takes time, patience & perseverance and a whole lot of failing in what your trying to accomplish but in the end (if you stick with it) you'll be fluent in understanding the architecture, how it all works to the point you'll be getting the likes of me purchasing your fine add-ons.

 

[DRE]

Honest suggestions please.

For fear of shy posters, I will accept Conversations ... and I will repost those anonymously.
I will also setup an anonymous email later.

I need a how to create an addon resource. That would be great. Floris deleted his and I can't remember where Chris posted his.

I don't want to have to depend on TMS all the time.

 

[tyteen4a03]

It all takes time, patience & perseverance and a whole lot of failing in what your trying to accomplish but in the end (if you stick with it) you'll be fluent in understanding the architecture, how it all works to the point you'll be getting the likes of me purchasing your fine add-ons.

All my addons will probably be opensource, but my hat is always available if you want to tip

 

[Shelley]

All my addons will probably be opensource, but my hat is always available if you want to tip

If and when the time comes and I use an add-on of yours we'll be taking a trip to donation land. Infact, many premium add-ons i purchased I always make a point in sending additional donations to the author because of their excellent work. It's just a small thankyou and shows that the work they do doesn't go unappreciated.

I'm even considering reading up on some documentation myself and see how far I can get in creating a simple add-on. See how far I get before i blow my top off and start cursing at poor samsung. I'd imagine it wouldn't take long for that to happen.

 

[Robbo]

Due to XenForo recently starting up again I might revisit tutorials and blogs etc to try and increase the quality around here.

 

[craigiri]

Moved from development questions to feedback.

I have to say though, I'm not entirely sure why you personally are canvassing developers on behalf of XenForo.

Isn't there an "official XF Cheerleader" badge after a certain number of posts here?


This guy was a famous cheerleader
(That's GW, for y'all)

 

[Morgain]

craigiri makes good points here about how addons are funded.
http://xenforo.com/community/threads/bridge-the-best-rather-than-make-mediocrity.45781/#post-493295

As s/he says sometimes even when well funded addons wither and don't fruit.
As s/he says many/ most devs are not business professionals so negotiating their funding id a tough job. Which btakes time from coding.

I also know one good dev who has now decided to hand support for their addons to another dev as a colleague, and stick to coding.

So there are these roles - coder/ marketer/ supporter - which require very different skills. At a guess I'd think a good dev is really good at 2 out of 3. Less experienced devs good at 1.

A Dev College Network? Maybe this already functions somewhere on another forum but it could be a real asset for XF to coordinate such a project. All it needs is a Category onsite and a sympathetic mod.

 

[Forsaken]

I'm glad all the developers are happy.

Except this thread says that sales are slow and piracy is an issue.

XenForo is a small market, and it has only recently begun recovering. I haven't made any recent pre-made sales but I've gotten ~10 tentative or definite custom jobs in the last two weeks.

You're reading what you want, ignoring other things and have no actual clue what you're saying just like usual.

 

[Sim]

What I would like to see is more collaboration between members of the development community.

Rather than one person doing all the work and then just getting feedback from the community as to bugs and feature requests, look at the thousands of open-source projects out there on GitHub.

Someone starts a project, hosts it on GitHub and other developers fork it and make pull requests when they've added new features or bug fixes. The owner of the project then gets to choose what they include in the core and merges it in and releases a new version when they are ready.

I'm pretty sure I've seen someone doing XenForo stuff on GitHub in the past, but I'd love to see more people making use of collaborative tools like this rather than trying to do it all on their own.

I've been too busy recently working on (non-XF) client projects to start migrating my personal collection of vB addons across to XenForo, but when I do, I was thinking of using GitHub (or perhaps Bitbucket) to host them publicly and solicit other developers to fork them and help make improvements.