Has Elon Musk lost his mind or?…

[smallwheels]

Can you prove to me declining revenue with an annual report or SEC filing?

Thought not.

Easy.

There are no profit numbers for 2022 and 2023 but evidence that they were at a loss. 2024 has just ended, so no numbers for that year. But advertizing value has decreased dramatically and you can advertize on Twitter on the very cheap now. Just that barely anybody apart from scammers and shady businesses does it.

As written earlier the company value decreased from the 40 billion $ Musk paid for it in 2023 to unter 10 billion $ last year.

One needs not to be a genius to assume pretty safely that Twitter is not doing well financially desite the cost cuts that Musk made.

But as you @frm seem to claim Twitter would run profitable: Where's your proof? You asked for proof why people believe that Titter would operate at a loss - now I ask you for proof for your claim it would be profitable. Fair, isn't it?

 

[Wing]

If your definition of doing fine is declining revenue year after year, then it's fine.

Any other company in that position would know the reality is they aren't doing fine and need to make changes.

Correction, people from certain political ideology left to go join their new "echo-chambers". This is not "rapid decline"... its trimming the fat. What is hilarious, is I am seeing more and more of these people who "left for bluesky" now joining back and posting on X after their public tantrums wore off.

Considering X is still doing fine looking at the data over the last 5 years... then yes its fine. If not better now from the social transparency perspective when looking at how unbiased the platform has become. Let the good and bad express itself. Who cares.

 

[zappaDPJ]

Can you prove to me declining revenue with an annual report or SEC filing?

Thought not.

The lawsuit X Corp v World Federation of Advertisers et al, U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas, No. 7:24-cv-00114-K against the World Federation of Advertisers, CVS health, Mars, Unilever, Ørsted A/S and Twitch is a pretty good indication that not only has Twitter lost a lot of ad dollars but that Musk actually does care about it which is contrary to his 'f*** them' outburst in a recent interview.

 

[Wing]

While I would not agree to this...

... as it vastly depends from your definition of "fine" I clearly agree to that:

It is not dying. Musk can easily afford to pay for it out of his own pocket if he wishes. He deliberately changed the character of the platform - some like this, some don't. So if the change made it a better platform is up to own taste.
My personal perception is that is has gone worse up to the point where it doesn't deliver value but does harm and is outright dangerous. Seems I am not alone with this perception. Others call this "free speech".

What cannot be denied is that the richest man in the world has bought himself a communication platform with a wide, worldwide audience and can do withit whatever he likes. He has changed the policies and he has changed the algorythm. How it works is a secret - so it is very well suited to be (or become) a propaganda tool that enforces messages that he likes and silences messages that he dislikes - I would not call this exactly "free speech". Proof is there that this happens and happened already (as outlined further above in this thread).

Some of those who enjoy the new Twitter did, as they state, not know or use the old version before musk. I am not a intensive user of social media. No Facebook, no Instagram etc. for me. But I do have a Twitter account for 10 years, so a bit late to the party but many years before musk. Did not post often there and have stopped completely in the meantime, but still reading. To me the change of the platform is obvious: From a platform that fostered exchange of opinions (though sometimes rough exchange) and had a broad range of different opinions and topics from science over politics to humor it has turned into a mudhole of aggressiveness. Science has left almost completely, official politic and other institutions have also left for the bigger part and what's left is yelling and disinformation to a huge degree plus scams and porn bots and russian propaganda bots - all of which was not present before Musk came into play. Right-wing opinions are overly pushed by the algorythm, other voices are silenced. It has become really tough to get trustworthy information on Twitter - which used to be one of the biggest benefits of the platform as it was faster than traditional media. It still is but fake news and propaganda have vanished that advantage to a huge degree. And the general aggressiveness constantly rises the question why one would still use the platform even read only - many, including me, have stopped posting anyway because of it. People freak completely out for no reason, most of them do have blue checks, so payed accounts (which get better promotion for their messages). I.e. just today BMW UK, so the Bristish distribution of BMW announced that they would leave the platform. This was the result:
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Sure - that's free speech. But what benefit would I have reading this hateful postings. US People claim they would sell the BMW they just bought because the British sales daughter company of BMW does no longer post on X and others state BMW would obviously not need conservative customers.

Again: Free speech - but an amount of outrage that is in my eyes just silly. Seem to be really fragile egos involved and a clear "either you share our opinions or you are an enemy" attitude. Note that all those posters have the blue hook.

So from being a pretty tolerant information and discussion platform Twitter has turned into a propaganda platform for rightwing, extrem right and russian bot platform where these opinions are not only amplified but others are silenced aggressively with the effect that only the extreme rightwing opions, the disinformation and the hate are left and people are confirmed in their existing opinion through that filter bubble and become more and more extreme in their opinion: They believe that everyone shares their opinion. All of that deliberately created and orchestrated by an authorian billionaire using secret algorythms.

Some call this freedom or free speech - I do have my doubts. So some would state "Twitter is doing fine" - others not so much.

Oh look, another tantrum. Just because people bring up the fact BMW was owned by Hitler's GOV at one time does not mean hell is freezing over. At the end of the day, it was the reality - and BMW should be used to new generations of people continuing to bring up this fact every couple years. Its literally the history of that company.

Sometimes we can look over the radicals, trolls, and lunatics - and see that not everything people do in this planet will make us "feel good". But we can still grow together and shine the light on others. A virtual social platform is no different. Just be the light you want these platforms to be, and be above it. At the end of the day I would still rather be part of a platform that does not silo-censor thoughts of others.

If someone is vile, then let them be vile... all it does is make it easier to know who you should block or avoid. Almost like adult life in the real world.

Grow some skin man.

 

[Mr Lucky]

I am seeing more and more of these people who "left for bluesky" now joining back and posting on X after their public tantrums wore off.

I'm not disputing that at all, just wondering if you can post some of the public tantrums of the people who left then went back.

Oh look, another tantrum.

Ah, now I understand. It appears maybe a tantrum is a post you disagree with but can't quite describe why? I saw no tantrumming in the post you referred to. So maybe just different interpretations of the word. But I'd still like to see examples of the "left for Bluesky" tantrums, in the interests of an informed (and hopefully tantrumless) debate.

 

[Wing]

Ah, now I understand. A tantrum is a post you disagree with but can't quite say why.

I explained it quite well here: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/has-elon-musk-lost-his-mind-or.228016/post-1730164
You guys getting your feelings hurt over a company like BMW being questioned about their history on a virtual social communication platform like X, is a tantrum in itself. I will requote: "If someone is vile, then let them be vile... all it does is make it easier to know who you should block or avoid. Almost like adult life in the real world."

Sometimes I wonder what you guys would do walking downtown in the real world, and coming across general banter and conversations other humans have on a daily basis. Like come on...

 

[Wing]

I'm not disputing that at all, just wondering if you can post some of the public tantrums of the people who left then went back.

Since you want to play games, feel free to google it yourself. Here is one example: https://www.gbnews.com/news/elon-musk-left-wing-leaving-x-twitter-rejoining

 

[smallwheels]

Correction, people from certain political ideology left to go join their new "echo-chambers". This is not "rapid decline"... its trimming the fat.

We were talking about financial figures, not about the number of users, specifically not about users that are not rightwing leaving the platform. Must has no doubt "trimmed the fat" in terms of revenue by bringing the financial value of the company to a collapse. But it seems he doesn't like it. The irony about your argument is that in a society that broadly values things on financial basis the decline of the value of twitter despite gaining users says something: It says that the customers that pay for the party, the companies that pay for advertizing space, see no benefit or even harm in advertizing in a hostile, right wing environment, despite some over here declare it as the ideal of "free speech". It rather seems that not only leftists see no more value in the platform, the users that are still there and the culture that it has but also basically all serious businesses. Which means: Furious right wing people have no value for serious businesses, rather are they harmful. That's not what I say, that's what the market says.

 

[smallwheels]

Grow some skin man.

How do you know that I don't have skin? I do. But life is short. Why should I spent my time in a hateful environment if I don't need to? In real life I spent my time in a nice environment where people know how to behave and do not yell, insult and lie constantly rather than in a stressful one, full of hate and scams, too. Why should I do differently online? Just because haters want an audience to yell their ill messages at? Sorry, but no. I don't need those persons - but they seem to need someone to yell at and someone that listens to their hate. Why should anybody do that? They have their free speech - but no one is obliged to listen to what they say.

Sometimes I wonder what you guys would do walking downtown in the real world, and coming across general banter and conversations other humans have on a daily basis. Like come on...

Don't be such a prick. You have absolutely no knowledge about me and my life. So don't claim things you have absolutely no clue about. If you prefer to spend your life (online as well as real) in filthiest, ugliest and most radical corners of society: Your choice, feel free.

 

[Mr Lucky]

I explained it quite well here: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/has-elon-musk-lost-his-mind-or.228016/post-1730164

In that case I didn't understand it.

You guys getting your feelings hurt over a company like BMW being questioned about their history on a virtual social communication platform like X, is a tantrum in itself.

My feelings aren't hurt by anything to do with BMW. It looks more and more like you actually don't know what a tantrum is. Maybe a language barrier?

Since you want to play games, feel free to google it yourself.

I don't want to play games. I asked if you could post examples of the tantrums you were referring to. But maybe you can't.

Sometimes I wonder what you guys would do walking downtown in the real world, and coming across general banter and conversations other humans have on a daily basis.

I would either join in, or ignore if I have better things to do.

 

[Wing]

How do you know that I don't have skin? I do.

You’re getting riled up over activists, trolls, and other vile humans trying to bring up BMWs company history on their company feed. As you said, life is short… move on. It’s just a virtual social platform. You’ll be fine.

 

[JamesBrown]

So you prefer a right wing echo bubble?

Yes, aggresive little wet lefties bore the tits off me.

 

[smallwheels]

You’re getting riled up over activists, trolls, and other vile humans trying to bring up BMWs company history on their company feed.

I care about - pathetically said - the culture of our civilization and our democracy. There's absolutely no doubt that it has become way rougher in the recent years and people like those on Twitter contribute their best part to it and seem to even enjoy it to destroy what has been achieved. I can stay away from this no problem. But the seed of hate spreads throughout the whole western civilization. We have had a pretty peaceful time since world war 2 overall and have grown massive wealth, culture and knowledge despite all differences and difficulties.
Currently we face a lot of new challenges, from AI over an newly aggressive Russia, white supremacists and NAZIs being once more on the rise up to things like climate change and all the consequences that come with it. So not a boring time at all. Instead of standing together and dealing with all that we destroy what we have achieved over 80 years within a very short time period for no reason. I would say we do have a problem and that some say there is no problem does rather make it bigger than smaller. That's why I am annoyed, not because of "thin skin".

 

[Wing]

I care about - pathetically said - the culture of our civilization and our democracy. There's absolutely no doubt that it has become way rougher in the recent years and people like those on Twitter contribute their best part to it and seem to even enjoy it to destroy what has been achieved. I can stay away from this no problem. But the seed of hate spreads throughout the whole western civilization.

Now I do agree with you on this. It’s getting worst across the boards on every platform and way of life. Some would say there’s a lot more at play here, especially in regards to overall mental health.

But with that said, show me a better system then because echo chamber silos are not the way forward. Keep in mind, you also live in one of the most liberal countries in the West (Germany), so of course there will be a lot more bias. But when looking at a general population that is very divided like the US, what social system is best other than neutral non-censoring system? As I said earlier, let the idiots be idiots that way it’s easier to see people’s true colors and know who to avoid! Just like irl. And that’s what X provides right now.

Bluesky, Reddit, ect all paint a fake place that people must remain within the hive mind. And a lot of people do not desire that anymore.

 

[MySiteGuy]

Yes, aggresive little wet lefties bore the tits off me.

Personally, I don't see threatening a minister with deportation when you don't like their sermon as a sign of dry panties and non-aggression. The same goes with threatening tv networks, newspapers and reporters, and saying your political adversaries should be executed.

 

[JamesBrown]

Personally, I don't see threatening a minister with deportation when you don't like their sermon as a sign of dry panties and non-aggression. The same goes with threatening tv networks, newspapers and reporters, and saying your political adversaries should be executed.

Bless you, you've mistaken me for someone who takes politics seriously. I don't care, I really don't

 

[MySiteGuy]

Bless you, you've mistaken me for someone who takes politics seriously. I don't care, I really don't

How refreshing it must be for you not to be burdened with caring, yet still managing to post in this politically laden topic 12 times (so far), and 13 times in the "UK Online Safety Regulations and impact on Forums" thread.

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[JamesBrown]

How refreshing it must be for you not to be burdened with caring, yet still managing to post in this politically laden topic 12 times (so far), and 13 times in the "UK Online Safety Regulations and impact on Forums" thread.

​

Counting my posts . You sound a little stressed, all that caring will do that to you.

 

[Suzanne O]

According to @MySiteGuy i've probably posted too much in this thread too.
But, how many of you guys in here voted for Trump to get re-elected?

It's just interesting to find out how many of you have actually mucked up and found out how much you're wrong about who you voted for.

 

[frm]

But as you @frm seem to claim Twitter would run profitable: Where's your proof? You asked for proof why people believe that Titter would operate at a loss - now I ask you for proof for your claim it would be profitable. Fair, isn't it?

I'm not claiming that it is profitable or that it's unprofitable, but I'm looking at your source stating that it's unprofitable, and you can't for certain back those numbers up with anything. Why? Because it's a privately traded company that's not subject to reporting. Those numbers are guesses based on how it previously performed. They might not include changes to staff, like laying off everyone, or improvement in verifications and real members, because all of that is insider information now.

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1418091/000141809122000147/twtr-20220630.htm

The last 10-Q that Twitter filed was on 07/2022. Where is the information coming for data over 2023? I'm genuinely curious. Did Musk state as such?

Just a side tangent and a strategic marketing move, if it did come from Musk as it's a privately traded company, not subject to SEC rulings... wouldn't that just be the best "grift" ever to openly state declining revenue? Lose half your whack jobs, but gain over 50% support of this country to use your platform because it's "dying in revenue". I mean, just look at My Pillow Guy and how he went from Zero to Hero after endorsing Trump. Just something to consider there, as the right finally realized boycotts work, something the left loves to do, and so does the opposite. The right is finally playing the game by the rules the left set and I love every meltdown from it.

Edit: Yeah, the only sources you can cite are Bloomberg guessing ad sales slump $2.5bn and from Social App Report. However, neither of these sources has the insider information to confirm it for certainty. You can't say that verification helped slumping revenue or not, and you can't even confirm whether it did drop as $2.5bn because some that stayed might be happy with paying the same (or more) because they're not reaching as many bots anymore. You don't know, neither do I. TLDR: Don't cite stuff that can't be proven.