Everything is paid

Forsaken

Well-known member
I gotta say that is quite considerate of XenForo to halt development out of respect for a developer.
It was a tentative feature concept that Kier was throwing around, not necessarily tossing the idea due to an add-on already in existence.
 

Sadik B

Well-known member
Facts Sheet
  1. Some very basic and simple things are being charged
  2. Some excellent addons are FREE!
  3. Some Addons are over-priced
  4. Some Addons are under-priced
hmmm... :confused: looks like a free market to me! :D
 

EQnoble

Well-known member
Facts Sheet
  1. Some very basic and simple things are being charged
  2. Some excellent addons are FREE!
  3. Some Addons are over-priced
  4. Some Addons are under-priced
hmmm... :confused: looks like a free market to me! :D
1. Sometimes basic in end user functionality does not mean basic code application and development time.
2. Sometimes people like to give back to the people, some people like to pay it forward, some people just owe society a debt, take your pick or make up your own...whatever fits.
3. Personal reason/opinion
4. Personal reason/opinion
But yes...exactly and I agree, it is a free market.
 

Deepmartini

Well-known member
Must admit I saw a new mod added here today, not trying to knock the releaser or anything, good luck to him selling it. But the paid mod "send an email to ADMIN when a new member joins your forum". Right away I thought. vB3 has that as a bog standard feature built-in by default. Not only that, how can the developers now add that feature into XenForo 1.2 (for example) without feeling like they've just stepped on a mod releasers toes "earnings" doing so. Yet, it's a pretty basic feature in vB3 I'd expect to see there in future releases of XenForo at some point.
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. If a developer comes up with a good mod and it's popular, then why wouldn't Xenforo add it to the core? As long as it fits in with their strategy for the product and makes sense to them. Developers would probably get upset and not make any more mods. How do other forum software handle this issue? When a good idea comes along, it would be great for Xenforo to be able to use it, without fear of developers hurt feelings or stepped-on toes.
 

D.O.A.

Well-known member
Criticizing what people charge for their work is in poor taste, imho.
No it isn't, it's called being a consumer and giving feedback. If you cry because it's negative, too bad.

People here have the right to charge whatever they want, likewise the consumers here have the right to let them know what they think of that. I've paid for a few mods here, released themes and kicked off development of the thread thumbnails plugin, so I consider myself a supporter of people who put time into this, but I also have the right to be critical of others overcharging for generic add ons that would arguably be a core feature by now if xenforo was not being raped by US lawyers & development was continuing smoothly. Right or wrong, everyone is entitled to an opinion.... so really you should just deal with it.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
No it isn't, it's called being a consumer and giving feedback. If you cry because it's negative, too bad.

People here have the right to charge whatever they want, likewise the consumers here have the right to let them know what they think of that. I've paid for a few mods here and kicked off development of the thread thumbnails plugin, so I consider myself a supporter of people who put time into this, but I also have the right to be critical of others overcharging for generic add ons that would arguably be a core feature by now if xenforo was not being raped by US lawyers & development was continuing smoothly. Right or wrong, everyone is entitled to an opinion.... so really you should just deal with it.
Feedback is all fine and good, unless it is in poor taste and little more than an insult to the creator of the product (Which many people find acceptable here).

If you do not agree with the price tag, don't buy the product. If you feel the need to post, avoid saying it 'isn't worth xx', as that belittles the developer and the time spent for the product.
 

craigiri

Well-known member
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. If a developer comes up with a good mod and it's popular, then why wouldn't Xenforo add it to the core? As long as it fits in with their strategy for the product and makes sense to them. Developers would probably get upset and not make any more mods. How do other forum software handle this issue? When a good idea comes along, it would be great for Xenforo to be able to use it, without fear of developers hurt feelings or stepped-on toes.
You could say this about most all software and operating systems.

XF should put into the core whatever they feel they should - IMHO - and not worry about developers in that particular sense. There are literally thousands of potential add-ons, and the best ones are those that only a few people (relatively) would use, whereas core should have features that MANY people might use.

XF must be competitive with free and other paid forums, so for them to hold back stock features would seem silly. On the other hand, if add-on developers produce really specialty stuff (full e-commerce is one example), that's another story.

Good developers will always have work. Developers should want XF to sell more units because that makes a larger market.....so, again, the best thing for XF to do is to lead the pack (meaning a bunch of good core features).
 

Hackfall

Member
There's definitely a different culture here compared with free software communities and this seems to be caused by the fact that the core, XenForo, is paid. Once you accept the culture difference it is fine but I think it takes a little time for some folks to accept the culture here.

FWIW I think that if Xenforo and add ons were free it would have massive take up and would wipe the flour with VB and IPB but I don't see how such brilliant software could have been developed without the current payment model. I have much more of a problem mentally accommodating paying $1,000 a year for minor upgrades to my Adobe suite when Photoshop, Illustrator et al were pretty near perfect 5 years ago.
 

dutchbb

Well-known member
Why don't we start taking this kind of feedback serious and acknowledge bad decisions and try to learn from them?

I warned for this before and after the Resources were implemented but no one listened. Now new customers give the feedback that could wake people up about the past mistakes and all they get is 'learn to code' as if everyone is interested in becoming a coder. This is about creating an appealing forum community, based on voluntarily help and sharing. It is not too late yet to change policy and adopt a system that can create a more competitive add-on offering. Or choose to ignore it and don't be surprised if potential customers see this as a major letdown and look elsewhere. It's really that simple.

BTW the free market argument is misunderstood here, this is about how a company can create the best possible environment to allow for its own success. The forum software market is very competitive, so the business model needs to adapt to that reality for the company to be able to grow. Meaning if you can't keep up with the number of free vs paid add-ons generated by your competitors, something needs to change in order to stay ahead.
 

borbole

Well-known member
Why don't we start taking this kind of feedback serious and acknowledge bad decisions and try to learn from them?

I warned for this before and after the Resources were implemented but no one listened. Now new customers give the feedback that could wake people up about the past mistakes and all they get is 'learn to code' as if everyone is interested in becoming a coder. This is about creating an appealing forum community, based on voluntarily help and sharing. It is not too late yet to change policy and adopt a system that can create a more competitive add-on offering. Or choose to ignore it and don't be surprised if potential customers see this as a major letdown and look elsewhere. It's really that simple.

BTW the free market argument is misunderstood here, this is about how a company can create the best possible environment to allow for its own success. The forum software market is very competitive, so the business model needs to adapt to that reality for the company to be able to grow. Meaning if you can't keep up with the number of free vs paid add-ons generated by your competitors, something needs to change in order to stay ahead.

May I ask you how many mods you have coded and released? I have checked your profile here and at vb and I have seen none so far. And most your threads are How can I do this and how can I do that and you have not given any support what so ever to other users in return.

So please do not talk about voluntarily help and sharing and all that stuff as that is a 2 way street. It looks to me like you want only to take. If you are so big about sharing, why do not you start to code and release your mods for free? And give support as well to other users with various issues. The only users I see whining and moaning about paid mods are non coders and the free loaders who want everything for free without doing anything. But it does not work like that.

And another thing, if you want to donate your time and work for free please do so by all means. But do not tell others what to do with their time and work. And if you look around, Ipb has a Marketplace which allows paid mods/styles there just like xenforo. Allowing paid items do not stand in the way of growing. It is the other way around, it helps in growing.
 

Jake Bunce

XenForo moderator
Staff member
He's not arguing give and take. He is saying the current system is not the best environment to create a competitive marketplace. The claim is well-formed. Hear him out. Maybe he has an idea to improve on the current system.
 

dieketzer

Well-known member
i think the aspect of the current system i dont dig so much is that it invites people to create bait-and-switch addons; releasing them for free then changing them to paid once the hook is in. add to this the policy that i cannot post a fix for a broken addon or update an abandoned addon... it starts to look pretty bleak.
the cherry on top is the moderating of pretty much any dissent or negativity concerning an addon, addon policies, or even a coder themselves. how this thread has gone under the radar is anyones guess.
 

borbole

Well-known member
He's not arguing give and take. He is saying the current system is not the best environment to create a competitive marketplace. The claim is well-formed. Hear him out. Maybe he has an idea to improve on the current system.
I heard him out alright. He is talking about voluntarily help and sharing when he is only taking and I haven''t seen him share one single thing. The only thing that gets improved here according to that post is not the system but himself and people like him who want everything for free without any regard for people hard work and time.

Anyway, I simply voiced my opinion which I think I am completely entitled to express it like that user expressed his.
 
S

Syndol

Guest
It is not too late yet to change policy and adopt a system that can create a more competitive add-on offering.
He is saying the current system is not the best environment to create a competitive marketplace. The claim is well-formed.
What's not competitive about it?
There are multiple add-ons with the same or similar features.
i think the aspect of the current system i dont dig so much is that it invites people to create bait-and-switch addons; releasing them for free then changing them to paid once the hook is in.
If someone decides to share with you an add-on they wrote and then decide to extend/improve it by spending countless hours working on it in order to incorporate new ideas and features, why should they not get compensated for their hard work (if they so desire) by providing this new and improved version as a paid add-on?
Was it not enough that you got the first version of the add-on for free?
 

Jake Bunce

XenForo moderator
Staff member
i think the aspect of the current system i dont dig so much is that it invites people to create bait-and-switch addons; releasing them for free then changing them to paid once the hook is in. add to this the policy that i cannot post a fix for a broken addon or update an abandoned addon... it starts to look pretty bleak.
What changes to the current system would you suggest?

the cherry on top is the moderating of pretty much any dissent or negativity concerning an addon, addon policies, or even a coder themselves. how this thread has gone under the radar is anyones guess.
That would not be good of us to suppress all criticism of people's addons. Though personal attacks are obviously moderated. If you can name any specific examples of poor moderation then I can look into it.

I heard him out alright. He is talking about voluntarily help and sharing when he is only taking and I haven''t seen him share one single thing. The only thing that gets improved here according to that post is not the system but himself and people like him who want everything for free without any regard for people hard work and time.

Anyway, I simply voiced my opinion which I think I am completely entitled to express it like that user expressed his.
Opinions are awesome. I just like to let people argue their own claims rather than doing it for them. If he can offer a solution then we can discuss the merits. Otherwise we are asserting our opinions without any construction which is boring. :(

What's not competitive about it?
That's a good question. Presumably he has a solution to increase competition. That's what I'm asking.

Obviously some of us feel there is nothing wrong with the current system, so we end up arguing the problem and not the solution. I suggest a more forward approach. Assuming the problem, what is the solution? That should allow us to move forward in this discussion.
 

Coop1979

Well-known member
I mentioned part of my idea here, but I'll expand on it a bit in this thread. http://xenforo.com/community/threads/add-on-installation-improvement.31684/#post-362560

I wish the Resource Manager was a bit more robust than it currently is. I wish it used a hybrid of the Wordpress and Apple App Store models where all add-ons are automatically installed within the backend of the AdminCP (no downloading or installing files, automatic updates, etc). Then all add-ons that choose to be paid apps are paid for through a XenForo payment system, and XF keeps 30% of the sale. This will lead to decreased pirating of the software since only licensed users will be able to access the Resource Manager, increased add-on sales for devs since add-ons are so simple to install, and increased interest in the XF platform.

I like paid apps. My entire livelihood depends on the forum software I use and the add-ons I've installed. A paid app tells me that my business won't be caught hanging out to dry because a XF update rendered it useless. That might not be a guarantee, but it's better than nothing. I also like to reward quality. If an add-on performs a job I needed it to well, or was out of my ability to create myself, XF devs have probably seen money roll in from me. I've also bankrolled new features on a few add-ons without asking for any recognition.

My point is this: Paid add-ons show a level of professionalism that is sorely lacking in the forum software space. XF can draw in every entrepreneur running a forum-based site by building the software around great 3rd party developers, a revolutionary Resource Manager, and high quality free and paid add-ons.

Look at the App Store: the only great free apps are either free because they are selling you a service attached to the app, or they are making a fortune off of ad impressions.

Why developers like Jaxel give out great software without embedding at least one ad is beyond me. And it's why I gave him $50 for his hard work.

My message to those that want free add-ons: Stop being cheap. You just spent $150 on a forum software. Give a guy $20 for the time and knowledge that you didn't have to make that great add-on your community is enjoying.
 

Luke F

Well-known member
I wish the Resource Manager was a bit more robust than it currently is. I wish it used a hybrid of the Wordpress and Apple App Store models where all add-ons are automatically installed within the backend of the AdminCP (no downloading or installing files, automatic updates, etc).
Would be nice though not entirely feasible

Then all add-ons that choose to be paid apps are paid for through a XenForo payment system, and XF keeps 30% of the sale. This will lead to decreased pirating of the software since only licensed users will be able to access the Resource Manager, increased add-on sales for devs since add-ons are so simple to install, and increased interest in the XF platform.
My anti piracy measures are much more powerful than they would be if sales were handled by a 3rd party system, and I'm not about to throw away 30% of profits and open myself to piracy for the sake of a faster installation time
 
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