Digital Services Act (DSA)

[Rsync]

Greetings,

As of 25th August, several big networks have begun implementing a new set of regulations to follow new Digital Services Act (DSA) Internet Regulations for Europe.

For all other websites and services, these regulations will take effect starting 17th February 2024.


I believe it would be beneficial for the XenForo platform to prepare and adapt to these changes ahead of this date.

Key mandatory regulations include:

1. Implementing broad transparency measures, with a special focus on content recommendation algorithms tailored for users.
2. Banning targeted advertising directed at minors.
3. Ensuring a prompt response to any illegal content reported by users.
4. Incorporating mitigation strategies to curb the proliferation of fake news.
5. Whenever content is removed, platforms must provide users with a clear explanation. Furthermore, users should have the right to challenge such decisions, even if they are based on the platform's general terms and conditions.

 

[FTL]

EU users, now with this law, have the inherent right to appeal content deletions or account bans and to receive clear information about the reasons for such actions, regardless of the platform's general terms and conditions. This right is not subject to administrative discretion.

Something tells me that right is gonna be ignored by this forum...

 

[Rsync]

And EU users have the right to be ignored also by folks in other jurisdictions.

Currently true... just for platforms without any type of headquarters at Europe.

 

[Suzanne O]

Currently true... just for platforms without any type of headquarters at Europe.

Just to be sure here mate, you showed us a bunch of social media platforms.
Internet forums are not social media platforms.
Why is this important to us and does it affect those who are outside Europe?

 

[Rsync]

Just to be sure here mate, you showed us a bunch of social media platforms.
Internet forums are not social media platforms.
Why is this important to us and does it affect those who are outside Europe?

Great point! I understand the distinction between social media platforms and Internet forums. The reason I brought up the DSA (Digital Services Act) in this context is that its regulations aren't just limited to what we traditionally see as "social media." The DSA sets rules for digital services that host user-generated content, which could potentially include certain types of Internet forums, depending on their functionality and scale.

For those outside of Europe, it's essential to understand that while the DSA is European legislation, global platforms operating within the EU will need to adhere to these regulations. So, if a forum or platform has users from the EU, or if it operates servers within the EU, the company might decide to implement the DSA's guidelines universally to maintain consistency.

This means users outside of Europe could see changes or updates in their user experience or platform policies, even if they're not directly under the DSA's jurisdiction. So, while you might not be directly affected by the legislation itself, you might still notice its effects depending on the platforms you use.

Hope that clears things up!

PD: deadline to have new rules implimented for all services is 17th February 2024

 

[FTL]

For those outside of Europe, it's essential to understand that while the DSA is European legislation, global platforms operating within the EU will need to adhere to these regulations. So, if a forum or platform has users from the EU, or if it operates servers within the EU, the company might decide to implement the DSA's guidelines universally to maintain consistency.

This means users outside of Europe could see changes or updates in their user experience or platform policies, even if they're not directly under the DSA's jurisdiction. So, while you might not be directly affected by the legislation itself, you might still notice its effects depending on the platforms you use.

Just to add to this, imagine you have another region with similar laws and restrictions (regulations), then what do you get with these global media organisations? A blend of the two, invariably ending up with the most restrictive policies in order to have one policy that adheres to both sets of regulations. Sucks really, but it's inevitable, unfortunately.

 

[MySiteGuy]

I'll do for this law on my enthusiast forums what I did with GDPR: nothing.

And for what it's worth, automated spam bots are not people, and have no rights. I'm not going to liter my databases keeping their registrations around, they are permanently deleted.

 

[Suzanne O]

I won't be doing much either. Not that it mightn't apply to me but i'm in to getting rid of the inactive posters.

 

[FTL]

I won't be doing much either. Not that it mightn't apply to me but i'm in to getting rid of the inactive posters.

Talking of inactive posters, one of my pet hates are members who join and then never log in again. Why the hell join in the first place then?! That's most of them, too.

And they're not spammers either, because there's simply no activity at all. Are they bots, maybe?

 

[TPerry]

Why the hell join in the first place then?! That's most of them, too.

In my case.. it was because I had misconfigured XFRM to only allow downloads by registered users (meant for it to be open to guests also). So the users that were hunting for the software I was hosting had to register. Apologized in the thread I pointed to folks to it about and noted that it was now free access to download and if anyone that had to join wanted their accounts removed to let me know... nobody has contacted me so they may show up again since it's niche related. Doesn't kill me to keep the users in the DB, and it's not like that data takes up a ton of room.

 

[FTL]

In my case.. it was because I had misconfigured XFRM to only allow downloads by registered users (meant for it to be open to guests also). So the users that were hunting for the software I was hosting had to register. Apologized in the thread I pointed to folks to it about and noted that it was now free access to download and if anyone that had to join wanted their accounts removed to let me know... nobody has contacted me so they may show up again since it's niche related. Doesn't kill me to keep the users in the DB, and it's not like that data takes up a ton of room.

Better than screwing up the other way - allowing download of a restricted resource. I've not done that one yet, lol.

In my case, any idea why they register and then never log in again? I just don't get why they bother jumping through the registration hoops for nothing (standard ones that come with XF). In the meantime, I'm trying to grow my forum which isn't exactly flying, so this behaviour really doesn't help.

 

[Suzanne O]

Talking of inactive posters, one of my pet hates are members who join and then never log in again. Why the hell join in the first place then?! That's most of them, too.

And they're not spammers either, because there's simply no activity at all. Are they bots, maybe?

Exactly.
They're inactive members who just sign up and not post anything

 

[TPerry]

In my case, any idea why they register and then never log in again? I just don't get why they bother jumping through the registration hoops for nothing (standard ones that come with XF). In the meantime, I'm trying to grow my forum which isn't exactly flying, so this behaviour really doesn't help.

Some may be bots... some may simply be humans that wanted to see if they registered if "more" showed up than if they were a guest.
If they don't show spam type behavior, why worry about them? They actually could be valid users that may come back later to participate. I know it would piss me off tremendously if I registered at a site, but didn't make "lots of posts to make the admin happy"... and then came back later with the intent to actually participate and the admin had deleted my account. That would be an instant "kick 'em to the curb" moment for that site.
I think you and the person that followed your post are concerned about the wrong things if worried about getting a site active.
There appears to be a fixation that a user that joins HAS to participate... and apparently at a level acceptable to the admin. Thats a rather controlling position to take.

 

[FTL]

Some may be bots... some may simply be humans that wanted to see if they registered if "more" showed up than if they were a guest.
If they don't show spam type behavior, why worry about them? They actually could be valid users that may come back later to participate. I know it would piss me off tremendously if I registered at a site, but didn't make "lots of posts to make the admin happy"... and then came back later with the intent to actually participate and the admin had deleted my account. That would be an instant "kick 'em to the curb" moment for that site.
I think you and the person that followed your post are concerned about the wrong things if worried about getting a site active.
There appears to be a fixation that a user that joins HAS to participate... and apparently at a level acceptable to the admin. Thats a rather controlling position to take.

Well, I'd just like some activity, otherwise the forum doesn't grow. And no, I don't delete those accounts, don't worry about that. I'll only "manage out" troublesome users or spammers.

Part of this is just wanting to understand what motivates someone to jump through the registration hoops, but then never come back, as it just doesn't make sense. Whenever I've found a forum interesting, I'll register and then post either immediately as I've seen a particular thread I wanna dive into, or within a day or two, so that's the sort of thing I'd have expected.

This reminds me that there is one account that registered ages ago, did sod all and then eventually did posted something - and this was definitely a user, not a bot or spammer and it was a decent post, too. So that's one then.

 

[TPerry]

Well, I'd just like some activity, otherwise the forum doesn't grow.

We would all like some activity!
Thing is... which comes first... the chicken or the egg?
You may have to even go so far as to pay for folks to create content on your site.... it's entirely dependent upon the niche. I could pay folks to create articles on mine... but those are "consumable"... and rarely create participation involving discussion.... even though I have the articles set to create a discussion thread upon article creation.

 

[FTL]

We would all like some activity!
Thing is... which comes first... the chicken or the egg?
You may have to even go so far as to pay for folks to create content on your site.... it's entirely dependent upon the niche. I could pay folks to create articles on mine... but those are "consumable"... and rarely create participation involving discussion.... even though I have the articles set to create a discussion thread upon article creation.

Yeah, catch-22, tell me about it. Thing is, I did kickstart it by posting lots of content for quite some time, ie new threads and it did look like I was talking to myself lol and it eventually paid off. My forum has been around in its current for some time now and did actually build up regular activity* from some users this way, but over the last few months it's really died off, leaving just a few core users posting there and somewhat infrequently too. I even had a day of zero posts, so I took a screenshot of the stats widget for posterity.

I've considered the paid for approach and may still do it. I have to speak to someone about this and see how much it would cost, in particular. They could create articles, or just be generally active, I don't really mind.

I've just realised that we're probably dragging this thread too much off topic though. @Brogan would you please mind doing the split thread thingy for us.

*15-50 posts per day roughly, which was fine and enough to call the project a success.

 

[Paul]

Please tell me that for purposes of this act the UK are outside of "europe".....

Users have the right to challenge even if based on T&C's.... Oh Good Grief.... Floodgates open...

 

[Rsync]

Please tell me that for purposes of this act the UK are outside of "europe".....

Users have the right to challenge even if based on T&C's.... Oh Good Grief.... Floodgates open...

The UK, post-Brexit, is now considered separate from "Europe." The primary legal implications will largely impact the European region, as well as any platform that has connections and users in Europe. It's expected that the EU may face challenges, akin to those seen with GDPR and cookie regulations, which many services still don't adhere to. In fact, countries within Europe are imposing fines daily: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/

The intricacies of implementation can pose significant challenges, particularly for smaller platforms that lack the resources of major corporations. Given these potential challenges, I'd advise XenForo to initiate steps towards DSA compliance by February 2024. This proactive approach will undoubtedly assist admins in navigating this evolving landscape.

 

[MentaL]

It is going to cost a lot of money to self regulate this. This is likely to offset any "foreign" propaganda. Personally, I would proceed as normal. How much does it cost to enforce? there are a lot of factors.

 

[KensonPlays]

How would this law affect a site that doesn't accept paid upgrades or doesn't run ads, thereby making no income on-site?

 

[Rsync]

Good news for most forum owners (at the moment), this is not going to affect platforms employing fewer than 50 persons and whose annual turnover and/or annual balance sheet total does not exceed EUR 10 million.