Duplicate Create New Usergroup - using permissions from existing group

[Ludachris]

That was a nice feature in vB. Instead of having to go through all the permissions from scratch, it's nice to create a new group using permissions based on an existing group. Very handy.

 

[Amaury]

Not really necessary.

Via @Brogan: http://xenforo.com/community/resources/implementing-permissions-across-multiple-user-groups.358/

 

[Ludachris]

Not sure I understand why it's not necessary after reading that page... can you elaborate? Let's say I want to create a new usergroup. When I click Create, all of the permissions are configured to Not Set. There are several I need to change, along with file size limits and other limits that are different for different usergroups. I'd like to be able to choose one of the existing usergroups that has similar permissions to start with and only modify a few - and more importantly, not miss any. Though the way permissions work in XF certainly make it easier.

 

[Chris D]

Elaborate in more detail what you're trying to achieve. Because Not Set usually means the value will just be inherited from another group they are a member of.

It is almost never necessary to change someone's primary user group, therefore if the "Registered" user group contains the most basic level of permissions, you can just create additional secondary groups as needed. A secondary group does not need all those "Not Set" changed if they already have that permission in another group.

 

[Ludachris]

Everyone will be set as Registered for their primary usergroup. However I will have about 12 secondary usergroups with varying permissions being imported from vB, most of which enhance what a member can do beyond that of a basic Registered member. Some of the groups are pretty similar - mainly a few extra checkbox ticks to Yes and changing of numbered limits is all I'll need to do in XF. But keeping track of every single checkbox can be tough with all the permissions there are, so it would be nice to create a new group based on an existing group instead of having to start from scratch and cross check.

 

[Martok]

For any secondary groups that are similar - create another secondary group and put all of the common permissions into this, leaving only the permissions that are different in the other secondary groups. You then add users to the 'common permissions' secondary group plus the other secondary group with the required 'different' permissions.

 

[Ludachris]

Yes, that is what I figured I'll have to do - it's still a very manual process when you have to start from scratch and compare each setting. The suggestion I posted would simply make it easier to start off with the set permissions of an existing usergroup when creating a new one. If, when you click the create usergroup button, there was an option to base this new usergroup's permissions off of another group already in the system, it would cut down the configuration time immensely up front, and in the future when adding new groups. I understand how I would go about doing it without my suggestion.

 

[Paul B]

The suggestion has been made before.

It's also the completely wrong way to set up cumulative permissions and results in problems later.

I speak from experience having had to clean up many installations with permissions set just like this.

 

[Ludachris]

I don't understand why it's the wrong way? I have the Registered group set up as the primary in every situation. I want to add a new usergroup that will have 2 or 3 settings that are different than another group (larger file size limits on avatar and a couple more boxes set to Yes, etc) and the permissions are based almost exactly on an existing secondary usergroup. Wouldn't it be very simple to create this new usergroup and start with the same permissions as that other one, and only have to change a few things instead of going line by line with the default and manually comparing it to that other usergroup? They will still be secondary to the Registered usergroup and will have everything that is shared with the primary Not Set.

This comes into play for paid memberships. I currently have 2 paid member levels but can see possibly adding a 3rd that has a couple more checkboxes set to Yes than one of my other paid memberships. My suggestion would make doing this very efficient. If I'm looking at this completely wrong in terms of efficiency, and if there is already a way to do this where you don't have to manually inspect every permission when setting up a new group, please let me know. It seems like I'm missing something obvious here.

 

[Ludachris]

For any secondary groups that are similar - create another secondary group and put all of the common permissions into this, leaving only the permissions that are different in the other secondary groups.

All my suggestion does is make this step faster and more efficient.

 

[Amaury]

All my suggestion does is make this step faster and more efficient.

Except this is actually more efficient than vBulletin's way.

 

[Jeremy]

I don't understand why it's the wrong way? I have the Registered group set up as the primary in every situation. I want to add a new usergroup that will have 2 or 3 settings that are different than another group (larger file size limits on avatar and a couple more boxes set to Yes, etc) and the permissions are based almost exactly on an existing secondary usergroup. Wouldn't it be very simple to create this new usergroup and start with the same permissions as that other one, and only have to change a few things instead of going line by line with the default and manually comparing it to that other usergroup? They will still be secondary to the Registered usergroup and will have everything that is shared with the primary Not Set.

This comes into play for paid memberships. I currently have 2 paid member levels but can see possibly adding a 3rd that has a couple more checkboxes set to Yes than one of my other paid memberships. My suggestion would make doing this very efficient. If I'm looking at this completely wrong in terms of efficiency, and if there is already a way to do this where you don't have to manually inspect every permission when setting up a new group, please let me know. It seems like I'm missing something obvious here.

Your Registered group has base permissions. Your premium usergroup adds 3 things (ie, tag more users, PCs, and receive PCs). When you create your new secondary user group, you only change those three settings and it will inherit the rest from the Registered Usergroup.

Or are you implying you have it set up this way, but you have tiered promotions where promotion one gets you a, b, c and promotion two gets you a, b, c, x, y, and z?

 

[Ludachris]

Except this is actually more efficient than vBulletin's way.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. I think you're talking about the way permissions work here in general in comparison to vB - and yes I agree. I understand the cumulative structure. That's NOT what I'm talking about... I'm talking about the creation of the usergroup specifically and being able to create a different starting point to modify from instead of starting from scratch.

 

[Ludachris]

Your Registered group has base permissions. Your premium usergroup adds 3 things (ie, tag more users, PCs, and receive PCs). When you create your new secondary user group, you only change those three settings and it will inherit the rest from the Registered Usergroup.

Or are you implying you have it set up this way, but you have tiered promotions where promotion one gets you a, b, c and promotion two gets you a, b, c, x, y, and z?

This is exactly how I'm setting it up Jeremy. I have roughly 10 usergroups that will have several different permissions settings. Some of the groups are very similar - tiered (paid) groups that have slightly more permissions than the similar lower tier. All I'm suggesting is that it would be nice to be able to click a checkbox upon usegroup creation that allows me to start with an existing group and then modify from there. I'm not suggesting NOT using the cumulative structure.

 

[Jeremy]

You should still be able to only set the changes necessary by adding them to more than one user group with the paid subscription. This follows the cumulative method and retains tiered membership (so if you want to add something to all the tiers, you are able to do it in the base tier instead of say 3-4 other groups).

 

[Ludachris]

I fully understand how you guys are suggesting it be done to follow the cumulative method, and I'm not trying to stray from that method. I currently have over 200 permissions settings with all of the plugins we have installed. If I create a new usergroup in Xenforo, the stock list of permissions is all set to Not Set when you start out. If I'm only changing 5-8 settings and raising file size limits, I have to open a new browser tab and manually compare the lower tier I'm expanding on, and go through all 200+ settings to find the ones that are common to see where I need to add. If I could click one checkbox to just have another group permissions all filled in to begin with and then go through and add from there and adjust file size limits, I wouldn't have to manually compare them between browser tabs.

I must not be explaining my suggestion correctly, or maybe there's a way to do what I'm suggesting already and I just haven't found it.

 

[Ludachris]

For people using the big board importer where you have to manually set up usergroups, who also have more than 10 usergroups, this feature would be very welcomed.

 

[Martok]

All my suggestion does is make this step faster and more efficient.

It doesn't make it more efficient, in fact the opposite.

Suppose in the future you want to give an additional permission to your 10 usergroups that your Registered group doesn't have. You have to open all 10 groups to add that permission. If you do it the way I suggested, you only have to only one group and add the permission there, then all those who are in those 10 groups will get that permission as they are in both the 'promoted common permissions' user group as well as in the appropriate 'promoted specific permissions' user group.

 

[Ludachris]

Yeah I'm obviously not explaining it correctly. As I'm planning on doing exactly what you're talking about. I don't know how to explain this any better.

 

[Martok]

Yeah I'm obviously not explaining it correctly. As I'm planning on doing exactly what you're talking about. I don't know how to explain this any better.

If it helps, what I do is keep a spreadsheet showing all permissions available in Xenforo (listed down the first column) and then a column for each usergroup, recording the permissions set. I find it very easy then to glance and see which permissions are assigned to which groups. I can then easily see that I am not duplicating permissions in several usergroups and know what the values are set to for the numeric permissions so I can set a higher value for other groups (and remember for numeric value permissions, the highest value is the one that always applies to a member in multiple usergroups). It's also great as a backup just in case anything were to go wrong and I need to reset permissions.