California Case Update
- Thread starter Shamil
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Jeffin
Well-known member
I think it's some sort of strategy to get IB to think this is all KAM is capable of doing.
May be wait till its all over. 
craigiri
Well-known member
Does seem kinda obvious when you think about it.
Negotiations and moderations are probably based on the stable release-not on pie-in-the-sky vaporware or beta stuff.
Also, and probably somewhat truthfully, the case has hung over the heads of a small firm and affected their ambition. This is also often taken into account in arbitration/moderation.
Of course, we are all pontificating and guessing....
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
NFL SAD
not f***ing likely.
stop asking, dammit.
Being practical, considering the case is coming up soon, there is now zero chance of getting any inside scoop.
I'm sure Mike and Kier have aged 15 years in the last 3.
Let's just hope the slow unfair wheels of justice end up in the right spot.
If it works out I will setup a crowdsource to bring a truck load of Southern Comfort to Kier and Mike's houses.
John L.
Well-known member
In my most optimistic "happy ending" it would see the case being thrown out, XF regrouping for development and an announcement being made to explain why development had stalled for as long as it did.
However, as I stated that is the most optimistic outlook. In a real world scenario I can easily see there being no settlement agreement and this going to trail. If that turns out to be the case I really believe an announcement from KAM would be beneficial to all those involved in the success of XenForo. As an addon developer group we have a certain level of investment in this software and being left in the dark is a poor business practice regardless of the situation. I'm sensitive to the case and its affects on KAM, but it's also insensitive to not explain yourselves further than one off responses in this thread.
*Still waiting on answers to those questions from a year ago...
However, as I stated that is the most optimistic outlook. In a real world scenario I can easily see there being no settlement agreement and this going to trail. If that turns out to be the case I really believe an announcement from KAM would be beneficial to all those involved in the success of XenForo. As an addon developer group we have a certain level of investment in this software and being left in the dark is a poor business practice regardless of the situation. I'm sensitive to the case and its affects on KAM, but it's also insensitive to not explain yourselves further than one off responses in this thread.
*Still waiting on answers to those questions from a year ago...
cclaerhout
Well-known member
Imaging that the development behind the scene has stopped is naive. It certainly has been slowed down but not fully stopped. The same way some would say they've never stopped fighting, they certainly never stopped developing as well. The problem is elsewhere, it's communication. And this problem is common to IB and XenForo but not in the same way. IB thought they could sell a forum script like a FMCG product, which means focus on marketing and use its lame and pretentious strategy that can be called "We are the best". And XenForo, because of this trial, has been forced by I don't who to use a mutism strategy and let the communication to Jake (who did a crazy job and should be eternally thank for it) and some members like ENF who has been the one to keep us inform with legal documents that jadmperry who helped us to understand. I did enjoy the movie The King's Speech but I'm a little tired to be still waiting (in vain) that XenForo finds his speech therapist.
John L.
Well-known member
Sorry but that doesn't make much sense. Saying someone is naive for believing development has stopped is about as ludicrous as saying that someone who believes development has never stopped is naive. Being naive has nothing to do with the development situation. It's simply a matter of seeing is believing. We see announcements and posts about development and we believe development is ongoing. We do not see any announcements about development work for months and we believe it has stopped. Pretty much as simple as that.
EQnoble
Well-known member
Anything they say to make someone feel more secure...may actually ending up being the reason they are not.
ManagerJosh
Well-known member
Everyone, please remember that that Honorable Judge Real that the event that triggered the settlement with a magistrate judge has not been ruled or decided. That event being, XF's request that the case be thrown out because the case has evolved originally and that summary judgement be ruled in their favor.
Adam Howard
Well-known member
^ This basically sums up the case nicely.
Internet Brands (IB) / vBulletin (vb) has shown a history of grasping at straws... ie... Anything and everything that could even be hinted is used for ammo. As the old saying goes, "everything you say or do can be used against you in a court of law" and XenForo is well aware of this.
If we had a XenForo release yesterday, today, or tomorrow; Internet Brands (in my opinion) would simply amend their arguments to include X, Y, Z features and enhancements claiming copyright or prior knowledge. And the case would be drawn out to last longer and / or more things could be wrongfully labeled as "evidence" against XenForo.
It is smart for XenForo on a legal basest not to publicly release anything further. It also on a legal basest helps prove their claim that Internet Brands / vBulletin has hindered the development of XenForo.
XenForo is taking the proper action.
Now that may displease a few people here who want to see a new release tomorrow, but there is a short term loss, long term gain strategy here. And how you see that will depend on which you would prefer... XenForo coming out on top with a judgment "as soon as possible" or XenForo releasing things with an endless lawsuit driving the company under. Our current legal system does not support both.
Teapot
Well-known member
The thing is, we can't be sure whether "development is continuing" or "development is stopped," and I think it's frankly ridiculous to try and polarise the issue like that. We do not know whether KAM have sat down this morning and wrote some code, made some graphics, wrote documentation. We don't know if they did it yesterday, or in the last week. We're in an unfortunate position where because Kier doesn't post a great deal on the forums anymore, everyone is expecting some sort of holy sign in the sky - which we got in August, and which did precisely nothing to placate the naysayers. Kier has posted in this thread more than once, and fairly recently:
Now, let's talk about the long-suffering Jake Bunce, Slavik, and Lawrence, who haven't collectively gone a day without posting in these fair forums, reassuring people, helping people, and generally doing their best to keep calm and carry on. They've got their ears to the situation more than we have - even if only by virtue of being the Powers That Be - and they've never given up hope on this piece of software. If we can't have KAM - for legal or personal reasons - I am glad we've got our mods.
This case is not over yet. Not by a long way. We have no idea exactly how it'll turn out, and that's why this thread exists - but just remember: this squabbling and doomsaying is exactly what the plaintiff wants.
Is development on-going? I couldn't answer that question. Nor can you. But there's Kier saying that they have no intention of stopping development, and that's what we have to work with.
Now, let's talk about the long-suffering Jake Bunce, Slavik, and Lawrence, who haven't collectively gone a day without posting in these fair forums, reassuring people, helping people, and generally doing their best to keep calm and carry on. They've got their ears to the situation more than we have - even if only by virtue of being the Powers That Be - and they've never given up hope on this piece of software. If we can't have KAM - for legal or personal reasons - I am glad we've got our mods.
This case is not over yet. Not by a long way. We have no idea exactly how it'll turn out, and that's why this thread exists - but just remember: this squabbling and doomsaying is exactly what the plaintiff wants.
cclaerhout
Well-known member
I didn't say someone was naive I said this idea was naive. At a time nobody was expecting xenforo. Many of us were facing the strategy of Ib without any real alternative other than the one to wait. Kam developed a full product behind the scene and they did it very fast. I think everybody will agree (except a few jealous competitors) to say they are all great coders who real love programming. So yes, considering that the development has stopped is "naive" ; if you want to find a better adjective please do, English is not my mother tongue.
This has been answered unofficially. There was a private, personal event that caused the stop of development and the retreat of the developers from the public. And since that event was personally, we won't get any official statements (and there is no need for it).
Officially all we know is that "development never stopped" and that there are money problems.
Sadly we know now that much of the official statements were not met in reality. Most famous are "the answers" to customers questions...
AzzidReign
Well-known member
If they can't demonstrate monetary loss directly contributed to xf, how can they win a case? For one, vb5 just released and this would be the first time they could actually see if they "lost" anything. But with it sucking so bad and everyone jumping to IPB, WBB, or free solutions, how can they say it is directly contributed towards xF being around?
The quality of their work is the reason it isn't around. If it maintained the quality it had on 3.8, I'd likely still be using it. But they are back pedaling, when they should be press forward.
The quality of their work is the reason it isn't around. If it maintained the quality it had on 3.8, I'd likely still be using it. But they are back pedaling, when they should be press forward.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Jeffin
Well-known member
When dealing with a court case involving a big company, you have to be very cautious and diplomatic in all your dealings with them. A lot of stuff should be hidden from the general public. Even things like forum development might have been stalled for some reason like that. Plus KAM has to raise money through other ways to defend their business. I am only assuming that's the case. I am however optimistic about the outcome although it may take a while till we see it. We just need to calm down.
You'll get it when everything is sorted. Please dont start that damn discussion in this thread as it'll get closed again.
If I were Bob Brisco, I would offer Kier and Mike a very, very large sum for coming back and head the vB development division. Or give them all rights and freedom AND a large salary AND a huge check for selling XF to vB and continue developing it independently, but under the roof of IB.
This is a way a settlement could look like. But that depends how stubborn those people are.
If you were Mike & Kier, would you trust Bob Brisco?
Deepmartini
Well-known member
Even if Xenforo wins (and I hope they do), how so we know they even have the finances to continue? Unless the judge gives them a big settlement, they may win the fight but lose the war. Lawyers aren't cheap and I would guess this lawsuit has cost the team much money. I wouldn't be surprised if the bill was over $100,000 or more! That's not chump change. Depending on how things play out...in the end Internet Brands may come out the "winner" after all.
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