California Case Update

[Digital Doctor]

I think its more likely the judge is saying that no side is completely right

If both sides are wrong, this needs to go to trial to determine how to proceed.
The judge seems to think the legal arguments are straightforward and it points to a lopsided case.

get a room and work this out so that their dirty laundry doesn't need to be exposed tot he public.

The judge isn't a dirty laundry protector.

 

[Jake Bunce]

There is no meaning to extract from this. The court moved the pretrial back a month while settlement discussions are underway. And as before the judge is apparently reserving the right to issue summary judgment if there is no settlement.

 

[Carlos]

I'm going to use this opportunity to address these two...

Wait you are basing your discussion/insite off a TV show?

I was about to say the exact same thing.

Both of you missed the entire point of using "The Good Wife" as an insight, while the show is for entertainment... The show is based on a true story. In fact, the decision to build this show was based all around the scandals of the various political leaders that fell due to these scandals. Since I can't really show you proof that what I am saying is correct; I use The Good Wife as a way of showing the perspective. Because most of the tactics used by Alicia and fellow lawyers is very much real. Down to the last detail.

Moving on...

Note "final" pre trial conference. Last one.

I didn't see that! Thanks for pointing it out!

Although IB have deep pockets and can pay costs easily = theior shareholders will NOT like it if they have a court case awarded against them. That kind of thing counts: it can dip their market value

That's basically what I said somewhere in this thread.

 

[Reeve of Shinra]

I think its more likely the judge is saying that no side is completely right, get a room and work this out so that their dirty laundry doesn't need to be exposed tot he public.

I tend to think that as well -- at the minimum a settlement is a better outcome than summary judgement or trial as a settlement would allow both parties to feel they walked away with the best possible outcome and it would negate the possibility of an appeal.

 

[Morgain]

Its more likely that the judge sees fault on both sides otherwise, he wouldn't impede XF's public defense of themselves after they have been so publicly accused.
.

If the judge sees fault on both sides he would be unlikely to direct to negotiate settlement.
After all there have been settlement talks over most of last year that got nowhere.
Why would it be any different now if both are equally wrong/ right? ?
Why would the two sides, if both have been defined as substantially at fault (ie more or less equals) , give up now after all this time?
They are both entrenched by now IF both are seen as at fault they could only give up if shown by a third party they haven't got a case. That is, have their day in court.

IF both are at fault - which is not what the records show at all - then both would want and need their chance to tear lumps out of each other in court. Two years dragging duels have not brought them closer, but rather further apart. Though with a much shorter list of points to fight, as IB#s claims have been cut down a LOT.
Negotiation at this point would be pointless because they are so dug in. It would be no more than an empty move to satisfy closing off appeal and God knows there has been enough time for negotiation all this last year if it were just that.
If both are mucky both would hope their legal team would pull it off in court - XF by good logic against lack of evidence, IB by twiddling technicalities and fancy footwork.

But if alternatively the judge sees one side as substantially at fault but not the other, that makes perfect sense of what he has done. He is trying to get the bad guy to cough up and settle, so as not to lose the case, or get ordered to pay all costs anyway under summary order. Because a summary order/ lost case will damage their business.

So who would the bad guy be? Who is the aggressor in the first place? the wannabe monopol y? the hatcher of rubbish claims that have been steadily chucked out by hearings?

I expect IB to settle at the very last minute they possibly can. That is, agree to XF terms on day 99.
IB have characteristically done nothing except throw up dust storms of nothing until they are forced to cut out their rubbish and get real (as in the major charge of claimmg the code was copied then dropping the charge; as in dropping their threat to drag in all kinds of witnesses which dragged on over a year before they were forced to drop it).
They'll do the same now - unless they trip up and the judge steps in to give summary judgement.

Disclaimer: my opinion.

 

[Carlos]

If the judge sees fault on both sides he would be unlikely to direct to negotiate settlement.
After all there have been settlement talks over most of last year that got nowhere.
Why would it be any different now if both are equally wrong/ right? ?
Why would the two sides, if both have been defined as substantially at fault (ie more or less equals) , give up now after all this time?
They are both entrenched by now IF both are seen as at fault they could only give up if shown by a third party they haven't got a case. That is, have their day in court.

I agree with most of the questions. More notably, the bolded.

But if alternatively the judge sees one side as substantially at fault but not the other, that makes perfect sense of what he has done. He is trying to get the bad guy to cough up and settle, so as not to lose the case, or get ordered to pay all costs anyway under summary order. Because a summary order/ lost case will damage their business.

On one hand, I see it this way, but then, on the other hand I don't see it this way because xenForo is a new company, while IB is the big bully in this case; they have deep pocket with millions of dollars in capital who can bankrupt a person if they wanted to. If IB initiates the settlement talks, it's going to be a double edged sword that they're the good and bad guy. The good guy in IB is going to be like "Okay, okay, I'm done BS'ing." And the bad guy in IB is going to ask for something in return with the settlement. They can go easy, or too far with this. If xF initiates the settlement talks, they might be seen as a sellout to customers. I know it's not true, but others will think that way. On the flip coin, customers like you and me are going to see it as a forced settlement.

So who would the bad guy be? Who is the aggressor in the first place? the wannabe monopol y? the hatcher of rubbish claims that have been steadily chucked out by hearings?

That's a question that will be answered very soon. Because I don't think IB is going to try to drag this out as the final date(s) of the pretrial and trial are final. I think this is Mr. Real forcing IB's or XF's hand.

I expect IB to settle at the very last minute they possibly can. That is, agree to XF terms on day 99.
IB have characteristically done nothing except throw up dust storms of nothing until they are forced to cut out their rubbish and get real (as in the major charge of claimmg the code was copied then dropping the charge; as in dropping their threat to drag in all kinds of witnesses which dragged on over a year before they were forced to drop it).
They'll do the same now - unless they trip up and the judge steps in to give summary judgement.

Yep, you're right on the money!

 

[ibaker]

I am concerned that this is just delaying everything and playing into IB's hands...not sure if I have this right or not but if they don't settle then what has been achieved by this is IB gain the time that it has taken to try and settle thus moving it all further out by a month or two and then we are back at the same spot we were a couple of weeks ago...i.e. IB wins a further month or two delay if they have no intention of settling, or have I got this wrong

 

[Jake Bunce]

If IB is favored then IB is favored, therefore IB is favored.

 

[ENF]

The possible scenarios are like this:

1. Settlement - If yes, lawsuit is completed. If no, go to #2.
2. Summary Judgement - If yes, lawsuit is complete. If no, go to #3
3. Pretrial Conference - A trial date will be set here. (This will happen on March 4, 2013, at this time)
4. Trial (Unknown date, to be set at #3 above)
5. ???? - Nobody knows.

There could be other legal hiccups at any of these steps, but as it stands today, those are the options at hand.

 

[ibaker]

So we could be talking another 6 months at least...is that right?

 

[HWS]

It can be over tommorow and also take another year. Nobody knows. Also nobody knows if and when development will continue after the law cases will possibly be closed.

There are simply no trustable, clear words from XenForo officials to XenForo customers. No conversation whatsoever.

 

[Jake Bunce]

So we could be talking another 6 months at least...is that right?

Sure why not. The lawsuit is likely to drag on for another 2 years.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Also nobody knows if and when development will continue after the law cases will be closed.

Yep. All is lost.

 

[ENF]

So we could be talking another 6 months at least...is that right?

I won't commit to six months, but if options #1 and #2 above don't end this case, you should probably assume that a trial would get going by April at the latest. There are things we don't know that aren't public that could be influencing the case. If this goes to trial in late March/early April, it just depends on how long the case will actually run. A few days? A few weeks? No idea.

Note: Everything/Anything [posted here] is pure speculation as presented by spectators of this case aside from a few writings by an actual lawyer, which again, is opinion and experienced based. We've posted the details that are publicly available, that's all we can do aside from just waiting it out.

 

[vVv]

lmfao... see... i flucking KNEW IT... jk

 

[ibaker]

Sure why not. The lawsuit is likely to drag on for another 2 years.

I hope you say in jest Jake! What I was referring to is that if they don't settle and a court date is set, then it may not be till May/June...that is what I was referring to!

 

[HWS]

Yep. All is lost.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

If you don't have own stakes in the game it's just very interesting to follow this case. But if you have (like businesses based at Xenforo)...

 

[Brad L]

At least we have a date that ends the proposed settlement talks.

 

[ibaker]

I am just about to start a major 2 to 3 month complete upgrade on my site and want to stick with XF but I don't want to be paying out money to get things developed that may not be needed due to any update released by XF down the not too distant track in 1, 2, 3, 4 months etc but then I don't want to just keep hanging on waiting and find another 6 months have passed...the same as what I have been doing since August last year. WON'T go back to vb and IPB is expensive vb but...........

That's just my own personal dilemma and trying to make decisions with my hands tied behind my back...that's all

 

[Brad L]

I am just about to start a major 2 to 3 month complete upgrade on my site and want to stick with XF but I don't want to be paying out money to get things developed that may not be needed due to any update released by XF down the not too distant track in 1, 2, 3, 4 months etc but then I don't want to just keep hanging on waiting and find another 6 months have passed...the same as what I have been doing since August last year. WON'T go back to vb and IPB is expensive vb but...........

That's just my own personal dilemma and trying to make decisions with my hands tied behind my back...that's all

I think a lot of people are in your shoes. Many peeps are still using vb3.8, including myself on multiple sites, and need to upgrade asap.