California Case Update

[Reeve of Shinra]

I dont think XF will get a Summary Judgement ... while I fully support Xenforo and believe they will be exonerated, I believe the court will have to hear the arguments at trial for the interest of justice.

 

[TheBigK]

Quick, easy-to-understand summary of the first post, please?

 

[ENF]

Quick, easy-to-understand summary of the first post, please?

Refer to post #3 above.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Very interesting...

I think that means the court sees the outcome of the case as obvious. That means summary judgment may not be out of the question, but in whose favor? I assume XenForo based on my reading. The summary judgment motion will be heard on Jan 7, 2013.

 

[SchmitzIT]

From 167:

XenForo (funny how that is admittedly phonetically identical to "Xen-4-0").

That's when you really have no actual argument.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Interesting argument by IB:

They say XenForo copied vB's architecture, syntax, and non-literal elements. Well... the architecture is MVC which is not owned by vB. I don't know how you can claim copyright over syntax. And I'm not sure what non-literal elements they are referring to. It all seems pretty weak.

 

[TheBigK]

The summary judgment motion will be heard on Jan 7, 2013.

If the summary judgement is in favor of Xenforo - how does it affect the trial, which I think in the first week of Feb? What if the summary judgement is in IB's favor?

 

[Jake Bunce]

If the summary judgement is in favor of Xenforo - how does it affect the trial, which I think in the first week of Feb? What if the summary judgement is in IB's favor?

Pretrial is February, at which time a trial date will be set.

Summary judgment would preclude a trial.

 

[Shamil]

will upload docs when home.

What IB isn't referring to isn't MVC, per se, it refers to the general software architecture and design, which does not revolve around the software pattern or coding paradigms.

 

[Jake Bunce]

PACER Updates for: 12/11/12 & 12/17/12

Anything about the court date today? There was supposed to be a ruling about IB's motion to strike Mike's response to the SAC and to issue a default judgment against him.

 

[Jake Bunce]

What IB isn't referring to isn't MVC, per se, it refers to the general software architecture and design, which does not revolve around the software pattern or coding paradigms.

So they are saying XenForo is like vB4?

 

[robdog]

What the F*CK! Are they bringing up this "architecture" BS again? MVC is theirs? Holy hell!

Seriously anyone with half a brain can check out the "architecture" between XenForo and VB5 and see MASSIVE differences. I need to sit with these lawyers and have them tell this to me with a straight face before I die of laughter.

Sorry, got a little fired up about this topic... again...

 

[Jake Bunce]

What the F*CK! Are they bringing up this "architecture" BS again? MVC is theirs? Holy hell!

Seriously anyone with half a brain can check out the "architecture" between XenForo and VB5 and see MASSIVE differences. I need to sit with these lawyers and have them tell this to me with a straight face before I die of laughter.

Sorry, got a little fired up about this topic... again...

I think the comparison is being drawn to vB3 and vB4, not vB5. These are copyright claims, and to my knowledge the only copyrights that have been offered are for vB3 and vB4. These claims originated long before vB5 was released.

 

[robdog]

I think the comparison is being drawn to vB3 and vB4, not vB5. These are copyright claims, and to my knowledge the only copyrights that have been offered are for vB3 and vB4. These claims originated long before vB5 was released.

If that is the case... that... is... even... worse...

 

[Jake Bunce]

If that is the case... that... is... even... worse...

Yeah pretty much...

 

[ManagerJosh]

HOLY CRAP.... that's a flood of documents.

Edit: Well what architecture does IB mean? The fact that XF uses OOP?

 

[Sadik B]

So they are saying XenForo is like vB4?

Yes, my reading is that IB is saying XF copied VBulletin's concepts of how a forum software should look and work. Yes, you can say that there are many other forums out there, but think about his from a non technical point of view.

Take the analogy of cars. Everyone makes cars. But say one company is the market leader in cars because it has some special features and just overall the cars are superior. Now let's say some employees of the said car company start making cars of their own which has the same special and superior features. So naturally these employees' new company gains an advantage over the market because other manufacturers don't have the same advantage of experience gained.

Whether this holds up in court, or what these special features are is to be proven. So in my non legal opinion, if IB could prove that somehow XF builds on top of expertise and experience and features realized at VBulletin, they could have a case if the jury/judge isn't themselves a user of forums and can know this is all crap. The chances are slim though, because law would/should dictate that experience and expertise learned or features common to products in an industry cannot be copyrighted. But we have seen stranger judgements in the past, so let's all hope for the best.

 

[ENF]

Anything about the court date today? There was supposed to be a ruling about IB's motion to strike Mike's response to the SAC and to issue a default judgment against him.

Everything that I posted was past the filing cutoff time. They wasn't any further info available today. Sorry.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Yes, my reading is that IB is saying XF copied VBulletin's concepts of how a forum software should look and work. Yes, you can say that there are many other forums out there, but think about his from a non technical point of view.

Take the analogy of cars. Everyone makes cars. But say one company is the market leader in cars because it has some special features and just overall the cars are superior. Now let's say some employees of the said car company start making cars of their own which has the same special and superior features. So naturally these employees' new company gains an advantage over the market because other manufacturers don't have the same advantage of experience gained.

Whether this holds up in court, or what these special features are is to be proven. So in my non legal opinion, if IB could prove that somehow XF builds on top of expertise and experience and features realized at VBulletin, they could have a case if the jury/judge isn't themselves a user of forums and can know this is all crap. The chances are slim though, because law would/should dictate that experience and expertise learned or features common to products in an industry cannot be copyrighted. But we have seen stranger judgements in the past, so let's all hope for the best.

What a minute. My brain remembers this from Bruce Abramson's declaration 2 years ago, before he had seen any XenForo code. Document 42-7:

That must be what they mean by "non-literal copying":

- Semantic XHTML
- SEO
- Facebook Connections and Like Buttons
- Style Variables
- Content Specific Search
- Inline video, or video embedding
- Improved CMS
- Following a user

 

[Forsaken]

What a minute. My brain remembers this from Bruce Abramson's declaration 2 years ago, before he had seen any XenForo code. Document 42-7:

View attachment 38240

View attachment 38241

View attachment 38242

That must be what they mean by "non-literal copying":

- Semantic XHTML
- SEO
- Facebook Connections and Like Buttons
- Style Variables
- Content Specific Search
- Inline video, or video embedding
- Improved CMS
- Following a user

So... pretty much everything that is in almost every other consumer software?