California Case Update

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We also need more Informations

What more information? There is LOTS of information.
Here YET AGAIN is a summary - sorry to those who actually bother to read jadmperry kier jake slavik and others.

The court case has dragged on for two years. Ashley right at the end of last August stated that the strain of it means the developers do not have enough time and energy to bring out the next XF until the court case is settled.
Since then Kier has come on this thread recently to give us correct information.

IB (the other side) have clearly demonstrated that they have nothing to say and just muddle about trying to drag this out as long as possible.
Last summer IB asked XF to consider a settlememt without going to court. (This strongly suggests they know they will lose.)
XF refused.
XF have asked the Court to give a formal decision to dump the whole thing on Nov 5 - the Court Judge appears to be aware of the IB strategy to draw out the case as long as poss to drain XF of energy, support, money: because he has refused yet more appeals for time.

what will happen if xf loses?

Again there are LOTS of posts about this. Possibly XF will be bought by a private buyer. POssibly it will go open source. Different ways to continue development.
It will not belong to IB.
It will not be illegal to use it.
It will not be illegal to develop it.

But as it has been stated OVER and OVER and OVER and Over and OVER and OVER again IB have not put in anything to add up to a case. If the Judge decides to permit them a day in court on a small item or two it will be so as to avoid any possibility of an appeal. That is, to beat IB more thoroughly and stop them tryinmg again.

OK the NEXT repeat question will be what happens` to the UK case? So I'll repeat the answer to that one too.

Under the UK system IB cannot as`they did in California, start a case without demonstrating they have reasonable evidence. They cannot do that - they have already shown that. So they will be unable to open a case.

They tried to start one. The Couirt system required them to put in I think £100,000 (about $160,000). They have to do that to make sure this money will pay XF if XF wins.
As far as I know IB have not paid this money showing very little confidence they could win a UK case.
 
Ashley right at the end of last August stated that the strain of it means the developers do not have enough time and energy to bring out the next XF until the court case is settled.
I don't remember him actually saying anything about development continuing after the case...did I miss something or are you just infer this info?
 
what will happen if xf loses?
XenForo has a strong case (defence) against Internet Brands (vBulletin) in my opinion and provided and assuming that there are no other lawsuits pop up around XenForo; I do not think there will be any further issues.

The product its self is fast, stable, and fairly secure. So I would assume if XenForo were to lose, most people would continue using it. Others may fall back on plan B, C, D, E, F, G, H, ect.... ect... As they see fit.

In the end, only you can answer what option would be best for you if that were to happen.
 
Last summer IB asked XF to consider a settlememt without going to court. (This strongly suggests they know they will lose.)
XF refused.
Not quite.

http://xenforo.com/community/threads/california-case-update.10037/page-230#post-431088

XF asked IB what a settlement would require from IB's perspective. IB sent there requirements, XF rejected it.

As Kier stated in above link, this is normal in any legal case. I can attest that every legal matter I've been involved, there has always been some settlement offer from one side or the other, looking for whether there is reasonable thinking or not from the other party. I've had two matters settle this way. Some others have gone to court, even due to my own unreasonable grounds for settlement, due to wanting to put a case in front of a judge for an unbiased outcome.

Some lawyers aim high and find a middle ground that both parties accept. Some simply don't bork, and would rather a judge settle it after all evidence / statements are presented. IB are not reasonable and want this to cause as much chaos as possible, thus they obviously sent ridiculous settlement demands, thus XF are continuing to court.
 
To summarize. Nobody knows anything. We wait for more bread to be given to the sacred chickens for portents.
 
To summarize. Nobody knows anything. We wait for more bread to be given to the sacred chickens for portents.

Sorry that's cake, the sacred chickens were fed cakes, similar to opaque legal minutiae one sees on legal proceedings, but the chickens still produce excellent auguries.
 
Under the UK system IB cannot as`they did in California, start a case without demonstrating they have reasonable evidence. They cannot do that - they have already shown that. So they will be unable to open a case.

They tried to start one. The Couirt system required them to put in I think £100,000 (about $160,000). They have to do that to make sure this money will pay XF if XF wins.
As far as I know IB have not paid this money showing very little confidence they could win a UK case.

Please stop mis-stating this. The reason they had to put up money was because the companies IB were using for the action in the UK were essentially shells, and had no assets that XF could claim in the event they won and had costs awarded to them.

I'm sorry to say but the evidence IB presented *was* enough to start a case. It's not about it being 'reasonable evidence' - it's about whether on first glance there's possibly a case to answer, which in my opinion would be answered in the affirmative, and it was: hence the open case! If it wasn't, XF would have been successful in having it dismissed in the UK.
 
At the End IB reached their Goal.
People left xf, Development has stopped, The mood is bad etc...
 
Remember that Kier is not alone to develop Xf and Mike and Ashley are still missing :) We need to support all the KAM team.

I support them both in their hope for well being... and by registering a copy of the software for one of my forums.... without ever seeing the back end (and so far, I am liking what I see well enough that I will most likely move my other site to it next month). I have also removed the ability of any user to utilize Forumrunner on my sites since they are owned by IB, and I will NOT do anything that remotely supports them.
 
A little change:
Development has stopped, People left xf,The mood is bad etc...
IB reached their Goal.
People left XF / the mood is bad is both thanks to our lovely community. Some people just love drama, some people decided they preferred other things. But there have been barely any people stating "Okay I'm leaving as XenForo isn't good software at the moment."

Edit: Oh and whoever thinks that the XF forums are negative, should try the vB forums. We at least still have a LOL thread, vB.com seems to be pretty much pure poison nowadays. (and moderators censoring quite a bit more too.)
 
Oh and whoever thinks that the XF forums are negative, should try the vB forums.
What I find interesting on the vB5 forums is that vB5 is so bad, people just don't know what to say.
It's like a global FTW.
IB wanted vB to be much more than a forum - which I applaud. In that respect, they reached higher than Xenforo did. However, they failed in that regard and completely neglected the forums.
 
vB5 has nothing to do with this court case, but either way it's not a win for XenForo unless they have the ability to capitalize on the upset community. In this case I believe IPB is the real winner. No matter how I look at the forum software industry, all signs point to an IPB win. Essentially you have an upset vB customer base who isn't in love with vB5. While there will be users who stick by the product, there will also be quite a few who are upset with it. Right now XenForo is not an alternative for them because XenForo is not in a good place. The only other viable option for someone looking to start a community is IPB. If I didn't have the experience I had with XF since the first public beta release I would not have purchased this software. People love stability and that's not what is happening here.

If anything, this case does nothing for IB except remove potential competition. I believe this court case made IB weaker from a consumer perspective. Anyone who is a XenForo fan will more than likely not invest in vBulletin if XenForo ends up losing this case. I would be more inclined to purchase IPB if anything. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. So all in all this case does nothing but weaken the forum market as a whole and give a distinct advantage to Invision Power.

It's almost kind of sad really. Competition drives innovation and without it, we the consumer, lose.
 
IPB and Burning board 4 look like good alternatives to both XF and VB, sadly
Until this lawsuit is over and assuming XF wins and continues development, that's where I see people going.
I really hope the judge chucks the case out, or at the very least, XF wins the case in the end :(
 
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