California Case Update

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No person would be in their right mind when wrongfully taken to court to ask the plaintiff to pay a percentage of the legal costs.

If Xenforo lose just one point, of the many IB have raised... or find any justification in some of the personal aspects of contracts signed... then that is exactly where percentage rules will apply. A judge will be satisfied that IB have a percentage right to be in court, even if losing 99% of the entire case.

Every point is going to be reviewed.

Again, IB have shown no such evidence yet, however; private contractual aspects may not be shown due to their nature, thus only appear on the day of court and not within Pacer or other public record if confidential in nature.

  • loss time
  • stress
  • emotional trauma
  • travel expenses related to litigation
  • slander/libel/defamation of character

These all need to then be proved... likely not within this case, because they would be considered separate unless raised already. I have not seen these points raised in official legal documents, thus that means it would be another court case of XF suing IB. I would think XF would just want this behind them... and be satisfied with recuperating legal expenses.
 
People seem to be confusing several ideas as to the awards of attorney's fees and costs.

First, in this case, it is not in the nature of a "counterclaim" or lawsuit for wrongful prosecution. The fees and costs that this case deals with are in the nature of statutory allowance of fees and costs. Forget about the idea of suing for damages as a result of IB's suit. While there may be some legal theory that could support such a suit, it is pretty remote and XF has not indicated at any point that this is part of what they are seeking (they could have done a counterclaim in this suit and that they did not indicates that it is probably unlikely to be an issue in any event. I am not saying that it is not possible, but it seems unlikely and probably should/would have been made as part of this suit if they were so inclined). What we are dealing with is the filings by XF in this case where they have asked (in the prayer for relief, Docket # 52) that they be awarded, "their reasonable attorneys’ fees pursuant to California Civil Code § 3426.4 and 17 U.S.C. § 505.

So, first you have to look to the statutes. Here is what they state (I will address each one separately, with comment/citations thereafter):

Title 5. Uniform Trade Secrets Act "§ 3426.4. Attorney fees and costs

If a claim of misappropriation is made in bad faith, a motion to terminate an injunction is made or resisted in bad faith, or willful and malicious misappropriation exists, the court may award reasonable attorney's fees and costs to the prevailing party. Recoverable costs hereunder shall include a reasonable sum to cover the services of expert witnesses, who are not regular employees of any party, actually incurred and reasonably necessary in either, or both, preparation for trial or arbitration, or during trial or arbitration, of the case by the prevailing party." Cal Civ Code § 3426.4

What does this mean? Under California law, you are looking for bad faith or willful or malicious misappropriation. But, you also need to prevail to be awarded attorneys fees and costs.

"Such an award, of course, requires that plaintiffs be properly determined to be the "prevailing parties," but we have no trouble concluding that plaintiffs were the prevailing parties at trial and thus legally entitled to recover their costs. While the monetary awards were a near offset, plaintiffs did receive a net monetary recovery, albeit slight. More significantly, they received a substantial nonmonetary victory. Code of Civil Procedure section 1032, subdivision (a)(4), defines prevailing party as follows: " 'Prevailing party' includes the party with a net monetary recovery, a defendant in whose favor a dismissal is entered, a defendant where neither plaintiff nor defendant obtains any relief, and a defendant as against those plaintiffs who do not recover any relief against that defendant. When any party recovers other than monetary relief and in situations other than as specified, the 'prevailing party' shall be as determined by the court, and under those circumstances, the court, in its discretion, may allow costs or not and, if allowed may apportion costs between the parties on the same or adverse sides pursuant to rules adopted under Section 1034." (Italics added.)
Vacco Industries, Inc. v. Van Den Berg, 5 Cal. App. 4th 34, 55 (Cal. App. 2d Dist. 1992) (emphasis added).

What is bad faith? Here is a California case discussing this issue:
"Gemini alleged that CCS misappropriated the identity of Taskmaster and die drawings needed for the extrusion of aluminum parts for the workbench. Customer lists and related information may constitute protectable trade secrets. (See, e.g., Morlife, Inc. v. Perry (1997) 56 Cal. App. 4th 1514, 1521 [66 Cal. Rptr. 2d 731]; ABBA Rubber Co v. Seaquist (1991) 235 Cal. App. 3d 1, 19 [286 Cal. Rptr. 518].) However, Gemini filed its complaint for misappropriation and related counts in December 1996, long after the identity of Taskmaster and die drawings for the workbench parts arguably held any economic value, actual or potential, to Gemini, CCS or any other competitor. By September 1995 Taskmaster was $ 326,219.21 in arrears to Gemini, and by the summer of 1996 it was $ 18,896.76 in arrears to CCS. Further, in September 1996 Taskmaster filed a bankruptcy proceeding. Gemini's case was objectively specious, if not frivolous, from its inception.

The timing of Gemini's action also raises an inference of subjective bad faith. CA(8)(8) "Good faith, or its absence, involves a factual inquiry into the plaintiff's subjective state of mind [citations]: Did he or she believe the action was valid? What was his or her intent or purpose in pursuing it? A subjective state of mind will rarely be susceptible of direct proof; usually the trial court will be required to infer it from circumstantial evidence." ( Knight v. City of Capitola (1992) 4 Cal. App. 4th 918, 932 [6 Cal. Rptr. 2d 874].) " 'Bad faith' means simply that the action or tactic is being pursued for an improper motive. Thus, if the court determines that a party had acted with the intention of causing unnecessary delay, or for the sole purpose of harassing the opposing side, the improper motive has been found, and the court's inquiry need go no further." (Summers v. City of Cathedral City (1990) 225 Cal. App. 3d 1047, 1072 [275 Cal. Rptr. 594].)"
Gemini Aluminum Corp. v. Cal. Custom Shapes, 95 Cal. App. 4th 1249, 1263 (Cal. App. 4th Dist. 2002)

(Looks to me that the Trade Secrets issues in this case are similar. If, as IB claims, the Trade Secrets "misappropriation" was known when IB asked Kier and Mike to return items kept years before and they did not file until years later only when XF was released, it seems to raise the inference of the value in these alleged trade secrets being nil after years had gone by and that would seem to indicate bad faith- not even getting into that the IB witness could not specify what was allegedly taken and not returned.)

(I have hit my character limit for my full post, so I will continue with a follow up post).
 
As far as the Copyright Claims, here is what the statute states:


"§ 505. Remedies for infringement: Costs and attorney's fees

In any civil action under this title, the court in its discretion may allow the recovery of full costs by or against any party other than the United States or an officer thereof. Except as otherwise provided by this title, the court may also award a reasonable attorney's fee to the prevailing party as part of the costs." 17 U.S.C. § 505 (emphasis added).

Normally, fees are to be awarded to the prevailing party:

"The awarding of attorneys' fees is left to the Court's discretion. See Fogerty v. Fantasy, Inc., 510 U.S. 517, 523, 127 L. Ed. 2d 455, 114 S. Ct. 1023 (1994). However, the prevailing view is that "although attorney's fees are awarded in the trial court's discretion, they are the rule rather than the exception and should be awarded routinely." Micromanipulator Co., Inc. v. Bough, 779 F.2d 255, 259 (5th Cir. 1985) (citation omitted); see also Roth v. Pritikin, 787 F.2d 54, 57 (2d Cir. 1986) ("Because the Copyright Act is intended to encourage suits to redress copyright infringement, fees are generally awarded to a prevailing plaintiff.")."
Kroll-O'Gara Co. v. First Defense Int'l, Inc., 2000 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 4549, 2-3 (S.D.N.Y. Apr. 7, 2000) (Note that this is a 2nd Circuit case- I did not find anything to suggest that this is not "good law" or rejected by the 9th Circuit...just be aware that this is not binding on this case, but along with the cases cited, is persuasive authority).

Turning to 9th Circuit cases, though, an important case that implicates some posts here as to whether a voluntary dismissal will bar refiling of this case and also by extension the issue of award of attorneys fees is this case:

"The Supreme Court, in the context of the Fair Housing Amendments Act (FHAA), has since held prevailing party status turns on whether there has been a "material alteration of the legal relationship of the parties," Buckhannon Bd. & Care Home, Inc. v. W. Va. Dep't of Health & Human Res., 532 U.S. 598, 604, 121 S. Ct. 1835, 149 L. Ed. 2d 855 (2001) (internal quotation marks omitted), and we have held dismissal without prejudice does not alter the legal relationship of parties for the purposes of entitlement to attorney's fees under a comparable fee shifting statute, see Oscar v. Alaska Dep't of Educ. & Early Dev., 541 F.3d 978, 981 (9th Cir. 2008)...
In contrast, the Trust and May-Loo remain subject to the risk that the Cadkins will refile their copyright claims, despite the district court's orders dismissing without prejudice the original complaint and first amended complaint and the voluntary dismissal without prejudice of the second amended complaint. The Cadkins have not been deprived of the ability to seek relief in federal court against the Trust and May-Loo under the Copyright Act.

IV. CONCLUSION

Miles and Oscar, taken together, compel the conclusion that a defendant is a prevailing party following dismissal of a claim if the plaintiff is judicially precluded from refiling the claim against the defendant in federal court. That is not the circumstance here, so the Trust and May-Loo are not prevailing parties and the district court erred in awarding them attorney's fees."
Cadkin v. Loose, 569 F.3d 1142, 1144-1145, 1150 (9th Cir. Cal. 2009) (emphasis added).


What does this mean? As I suggested in an earlier post, if IB's Copyright Claims are precluded from being refiled after a voluntary dismissal- which may be an outcome of the motions hearing on Nov. 5- by the statute of limitations, the XF will be a prevailing party and should be awarded "full costs." (The same outcome applies should the case be dismissed with prejudice).

It seems there is a lot of confusion on who all of this works. I have tried to share some thoughts on the proper framework to look at the issues, but given that many premises in recent posts are wrong, it is hard to address all of the potential issues. Bottom line, it seems highly likely that XF will get costs and attorneys fees in this case barring some almost impossible to fathom developments in this case. Everything is speculation until you have some rulings in this case and a factual record on which to analyze. That said, the previous filings in this case are indicative of what IB has for arrows in their quiver- and those arrows seem to be weak and ineffective. If anyone wants a good analogy, IB's legal claims seem to be as strong as the utility of the present incarnation of vB5 Connect.
 
If Xenforo lose just one point, of the many IB have raised... or find any justification in some of the personal aspects of contracts signed... then that is exactly where percentage rules will apply. A judge will be satisfied that IB have a percentage right to be in court, even if losing 99% of the entire case.

Not to call you out or ridicule this post. This is not how it works. See my above posts, especially as to concepts of "prevailing party." It is not an "all or nothing" analysis.
 
No person would be in their right mind when wrongfully taken to court to ask the plaintiff to pay a percentage of the legal costs.

Money could possibly be claimed for:
  • loss time
  • stress
  • emotional trauma
  • travel expenses related to litigation
  • slander/libel/defamation of character


Don't confuse cross claims or counter claims with legal fees awarded under a fee shifting statute. Different issues entirely. However, it can make sense to claim either in the right circumstances. As always, the facts matter and are determinative.
 
It is not an "all or nothing" analysis.
That is what I eluded in my post... that it is not all or nothing. A percentage scale can apply. I know here... merit of each parties aspects will have some continuity into whether fee's are passed partially, in full or not at all. It is actually very hard to get fee's assigned to the other party here. It is the exception, and not the rule.
 
xenforo.this.webp


If the accusations fit ... you must Acquit ! Dismiss !
 
When was this motion made?

EDIT: I see it, does this mean it's been brought before a judge to decide or not yet?
 
Basically IB have failed to follow through with documentation in preparation for court, thus failed to comply with court orders.

So what does that actually mean and how does this benefit the case? Will the judge see this has a kind of piss take? and see it as wasting his time?
 
I don't know how the judge will see it. The judge has expressed agreement in some past documentation that IB is wasting time with these proceedings. IB's behaviour up until now, combined with this failure to submit documentation on a timely manner IAW court orders for pre-trial, may give him enough to accept that IB has been on a fishing expedition to waste the courts time and hinder XF. If the judge does see that... things may get infinitely worse for IB as a result on him ruling.

The judge may simply let it all slide, and if IB aren't ready on the day, then he smacks them hard for failure to comply with court orders for their own hearing. Too many possibilities.

Things are looking worse for IB though as time progresses.
 
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