Apple products and pricing

Anthony Parsons said:
Are you saying parts that Apple use, or are you saying, one hard drive is the same as another?

I do not dismiss the parts are the same, what I dismiss is that performance from a person "thinking" they know what they're doing in putting specific parts together versus an engineered system that uses specific parts that have been test benched together to provide a near unrestricted performance level, are vastly different. Anyone with electrical qualifications will know, which I have and also accept, EVERY computer will have some I/O points to some degree... there is nothing you can do about that. You can however significantly increase or decrease these points through an engineered system.

Whilst some say that Apple and PC's are similar, you actually can't be further from the truth. One engineering point that Apple and others discovered long ago, is to remove cabling as much as possible, hence why we now have slim, ultra thin systems because they have designed parts and boards specifically to build an entire system with little to no cabling.

Add a cable, you add a serious I/O point immediately to that parts performance, as cables have vastly different and unique properties for use compared to direct integration into a PC board itself.

Is Mac Pro expensive? Yes. Those systems I think you are paying a premium upon not because they're Mac, but because they aren't huge sellers compared to iMac's, which are Apples premium sale computer line, which I what I am talking about.

I don't experience that on the iMac. That may be a Mac Pro thing, which I agree are over the top... iMac however, being Apples primary computer line, I have 6 x USB ports, plus other ports for different data / connection types.
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Complete and utter bunk.

We've gone through this before, and every time you have brought up the same argument, and I've given points and facts to backup my stance on it.

You do realize everything you say is done with Macs to make them better can be done exactly with a PC? Yeah, if you buy from Dell, HP, or any other shop like that you're going to have issues, but thats because you're buying sub-standard. If you build your own, or go to a premium shop (iBuyPower, CyberPC or other shops) you're going to have a much more efficient system. If you also put the time into researching the parts, and what you'll need for best performance you're going to completely outdo Mac in power. For a cheaper price.

Don't fool yourself in thinking the hardware or anything is better, it is exactly the same as if you bought the part standalone. Difference between Mac and PC is only the OS, and that is all preference and what you need it for.
 
Slavik said:
Id like to see how you define quality? This PC I built myself nearly 3 and a half years ago or so. It cost me £2000 back then, and when I check against current macs, it is still more powerul than any imac they have listed, and just about on par with the 8core imac pro which currently costs £2800...

So... 3 years on... apple are selling systems I was building 3 years ago for..more?

Maybe its time to break this coversation off into a proper mac vs pc thread ;)
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This is how I see it... I built a unit for £400 a year ago... which is better than the quad-core mac pro available today for £1500+... I don't worry about Windows OS rubbishness instead I stick to a Linux Distro ok not as slick as the Mac UI... not as User Friendly as windows but 100x more stable than both, the unit I am talking about has been on now for 456days (not far of a year) without a single restart and is still running as smooth as the day I turned it on.
 
I was a huge Mac guy many years ago, back when what was under the hood and compatibility meant at least as much as cute stylish looks. Since Jobs returned, I discovered that Apple went from being a great product to being an endless sinkhole that requires even more proprietary investments into one technology. That unfortunately compelled me to move away. I'm not saying that the products aren't good - they just haven't worked for me for a long time. It pained me to watch Apple go in this direction. Here's my list as to why I don't own any Apple products, except for testing:

(1) Cost for Apple products/Macs is far greater than equivalent PCs.
(2) I can replace any part I need easily, e.g. DVD-drive. Most PCs are made that way, even laptops.
(3) I build my own PCs, which allows me far greater freedom to get better parts at lower prices.
(4) No DRM - I can drag and drop audio and video files on all my devices without thinking about it (think iPhone-Mac)
(5) Non-standard cables (by design... it's irritating to say the least)
(6) I prefer the speedy 4G Android phones, which works much better on PCs
(7) Apple's OS has cool stuff but I've found to be increasingly more difficult and less intuitive to use. And to be perfectly honest, I really love having extra mouse buttons and not just one because minimalism looks prettier to some. At this point, I also think Windows 7 works very well, smoothly, quickly and just a better experience.
(8) All the software I need is created for Windows - still not on the Mac in some instances and, if it is, the versions are not as good.

In Apple's corner, many of the products they build work very well and reliably for the limited purpose intended. It's a choice each of us has to make.
 
TheLaw said:
(1) Cost for Apple products/Macs is far greater than equivalent PCs.
(2) I can replace any part I need easily, e.g. DVD-drive. Most PCs are made that way, even laptops.
(3) I build my own PCs, which allows me far greater freedom to get better parts at lower prices.
(4) No DRM - I can drag and drop audio and video files on all my devices without thinking about it (think iPhone-Mac)
(5) Non-standard cables (by design... it's irritating to say the least)
(6) I prefer the speedy 4G Android phones, which works much better on PCs
(7) Apple's OS has cool stuff but I've found to be increasingly more difficult and less intuitive to use. And to be perfectly honest, I really love having extra mouse buttons and not just one because minimalism looks prettier to some. At this point, I also think Windows 7 works very well, smoothly, quickly and just a better experience.
(8) All the software I need is created for Windows - still not on the Mac in some instances and, if it is, the versions are not as good.
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1) Not to mention the lack of USB3, and I think the newest iteration of SATA. Yes Light Peak (Thunderbolt) is cool, but due to Apples implementation you now get to buy all new products that use minidisplay, or a bunch of adapters.
5) Perfect example (again) is the use of mini display for their Light Peak implementation. Mini display is not commonly used in monitors, and not at all in most products. Sony's implementation uses USB, which is backwards compatible with the majority of products out there, and there are plenty of USB monitors and/or adapters.
7) Theres some things I like on my Mac's, but for the most part I find my productivity is faster on Windows (AutoHotkey, macros, and nearly anything else you can think of). I'm also one of those odd people who didn't completely hate Vista (Yes, it wasn't that great, but if you went through and fine-tuned it it was infinitely better than XP).
 
Anthony, not to zero in on just you or anything...but weren't you the same guy that was just as devoted to a certain other product, (which will remain nameless), claiming its superiority to other related products, only to finally see the light months after the rest of us and come to XenForo? ;)
 
I think Apples 100% turnover increase in the last quarter, now becoming the #1 company in the world on the share market above an oil company of all things... says something. For the first time ever, today I watched a Microsoft ad on TV during the news marketing PC's... hmmm... I wonder why that is? First time ever I have specifically seen an ad by Microsoft marketing PC's, not Windows itself. Seen ads when Windows 7 came out, and for Windows in general... but this was now marketing PC's! Interesting.

I guess the public and statistics must all be wrong... and PC's are just still so awesome as the public demand for them has dropped so radically and users shifting to Mac. Then again, the figures could just all be smoke and mirrors ha? :D

I agree totally that the pro series are expensive in Mac... absolutely, and no doubt that has more to do with limited volume sales vs. Apple branding, especially considering the iMac's are their real computer product line, not the pro / server series... reduced sales usually means increased pricing. iMac's have increased in specs, decreased in price, obviously due to there volume increase through sales. iPhone's and iPads also the same... more specs, lower price, as more pickup the product and make the switch.

Apple's notebook series is more valuable than their pro / server series, but not as dominant as the iMac series for sales volume... hence why they have also increased in specs, decreased in price... all tailored with the current trend towards limiting options to key upgrades, thus minimizing parts and build costs.

Hey... again, the figures could all be wrong... but considering Apple just overtook Exxon Mobil, I somehow doubt the shift is wrong towards a quality product at a competitive price vs. PC offerings and there respective build quality.
 
If there was a single company selling all of the PC's and parts then I suspect it would be considerably larger than Apple.
 
jmurrayhead said:
Anthony, not to zero in on just you or anything...but weren't you the same guy that was just as devoted to a certain other product, (which will remain nameless), claiming its superiority to other related products, only to finally see the light months after the rest of us and come to XenForo? ;)
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I never said VB product wasn't flawed, I was merely being loyal to the company awaiting it to fix its mistakes. When the company lost even its moral standing to publicly wish XF well, then launch a lawsuit against them the day before launch, that is the moment they lost me... not for any other reason at that time.

I have also been a loyal fan to PC's and Windows since its inception... dismissing Mac as difficult and outside the trend. I admitted I was wrong in my thinking there as well... after putting my ignorance aside long enough to let someone show me the true power and ability of a Mac, the decision was actually quite easy for me.

I have zero issues with Mac now, compared to having issues with PC + Windows. I had issues with VB4, yet don't with XF. I know when to admit I am wrong... as I was wrong about Mac and not trying them far before I did so.

I go to friends homes, who have complicated media server setups, systems, router size units at there TV's, the list goes on... with Apple, I have one iMac and a tiny little Apple TV box that sits in the palm of my hand, that streams flawless movies anywhere in the house, even outside to our outdoor TV, flawless stream... my friends stutter along at times, media server crashes on them during a movie every now and then... typical Windows... the list goes on.

Apple has its faults, absolutely... but from my viewpoint now, PC's have far more issues from my experience that I have now using Apple.
 
Brogan said:
If there was a single company selling all of the PC's and parts then I suspect it would be considerably larger than Apple.
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That is true... however; there is one company selling the primary software, and they're dropping down the list, not climbing it. That is a direct representation of the global shift towards Apple to my knowledge.
 
Anthony Parsons said:
I never said VB product wasn't flawed, I was merely being loyal to the company awaiting it to fix its mistakes. When the company lost even its moral standing to publicly wish XF well, then launch a lawsuit against them the day before launch, that is the moment they lost me... not for any other reason at that time.

I have also been a loyal fan to PC's and Windows since its inception... dismissing Mac as difficult and outside the trend. I admitted I was wrong in my thinking there as well... after putting my ignorance aside long enough to let someone show me the true power and ability of a Mac, the decision was actually quite easy for me.

I have zero issues with Mac now, compared to having issues with PC + Windows. I had issues with VB4, yet don't with XF. I know when to admit I am wrong... as I was wrong about Mac and not trying them far before I did so.

I go to friends homes, who have complicated media server setups, systems, router size units at there TV's, the list goes on... with Apple, I have one iMac and a tiny little Apple TV box that sits in the palm of my hand, that streams flawless movies anywhere in the house, even outside to our outdoor TV, flawless stream... my friends stutter along at times, media server crashes on them during a movie every now and then... typical Windows... the list goes on.

Apple has its faults, absolutely... but from my viewpoint now, PC's have far more issues from my experience that I have now using Apple.
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That is a standard typical apple fanatic's response. Either that or someone's maccy went on autopilot, became self aware and can now post glowing responses on forum software. Sorry anthony but if you had this many issues and i would say this to anyone chances are it's not computer/hardware error it'll be human error. That said, I personally don't believe you myself when you say you had all these problems, i think you've obviously been touched by the apple emblem, joined the apple brigade and that cloud of hatred has formed around you, I know in some countries there is another name for it. Stigmata. :cry:
 
I'll tell y'all what...no matter what kind of computer you own.....if you don't open the case every so often (how often is determined by the ppm of debris in your computers surroundings) and remove the dust, your computer's components will not be able to relieve themselves of heat properly and in the unlucky cases the dust collected can act like a sponge on very humid occasions and cause a nice fireworks display which subsequently and immediately render your computer to scrap.

A computer is similar to a car in the likes that basic maintenance will prolong the life of the unit. Keeping dust out of your computer is to regularly changing the oil in your car.

Getting back to apple and it's pricing and the company success....well that boils down to people willing to pay for what they offer for whatever reason it be. In my opinion it really is as simple as brand recognition at this point and out of the big brands that most people know about...apple I would say is the most different and the fact that there is actual people in a physical place that you can talk to about your purchase from them if you have a problem if that is something you need or want. This is all aside from the people who just prefer apple because they can and why not. Different strokes for different folks and it's your money, do what you want with it.
 
EQnoble said:
Different strokes for different folks and it's your money, do what you want with it.
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That is true but i think the discussion isn't primarily because they own a maccy or even laccy a maccy but rather once they purchase the apple emblem aka maccy iphone, maccy ipod, maccy coffee maccy mac pro. the standard maccy fan club response "why has my room turned greyscale, it's contents apart from my maccy products" Customer Service response: "because you don't have an apple emblem attached to your product and /or your fake maccy badge hasn't been blessed by steve jobs" but anyway, the brigade (apple brigade) go on to state that they had nothing but issues with pcs. I dunno, but for me this is utter madness, nonsense and most of all why even lie about your past experiences with pcs to the point that people are thinking LIES!!!? obviously, if you've only migrated to the maccy fan club there must have been all those years when the "pc" windows <insert os here> served you well enough for you to use it for all those years. :cry:

I don't think people are fibbing as such, we all get problems with hardware from time to time. I think a better word is exaggerated experiences is a better way to put it.
 
Agreed...windows has served me well for years and building my own computers was the smartest thing I did with a pc since I first touched a keyboard. As long as you use decent parts it is the most cost effective solution to the same ends basically.

I am not anti mac in any way I just like the freedom to use whatever I need and pick the parts rather than select a configuration from an assembly line.

I personally find most of the people who have problems with pc's (that I have come across at any rate) are people who buy from website with a "click the button / configure my computer purchase" applet. I for instance have never owned a dell...that didn't die. I had a boned-up rig on the other hand made from parts off of scraped rigs that is still running and my friend is currently using it in his house for SD quality home network streaming to game consoles and other computers. I think I shut that computer off dozen times in a 3 year swathe pf time.

Like I said before somewhere here...I am going to get one of the new droids but I am going to keep my iphone for as long as it lasts as I am locked in to unlimited data txt and phone service for like 42USD or something and I use the phone as a portable modem along with a few apps that I need the iphone for as I don't want to track the person down who coded an app for me to try and have them rebuild it for a new platform. The thing that really kills me with the iphone is the flash media denial system and the inability to playback flac audio and certain other media formats.

Not hating on it at all....but my main pc will probably always be windows...(unless some beast builds a new operating system from scratch that magically supports every software title that runs on window) just because I am comfortable with it and I can replace hardware whether it be an upgrade or whatever and still be under the tag on a comparable mac.
 
Quite funny, yet interesting, to see what happens when people love their OS!!!
Dean said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'turnover' increase?
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Sales.... growth.... market dominance increase...

iPhone: http://www.slashgear.com/apple-grabs-two-thirds-of-mobile-phone-industry-profits-29168396/

iPhone and iPad sales up 125%, iMac and macbook also climbing, especially with the introduction of the Mac App store, bringing mobile mac users to Mac systems.

Global experts anticipate Mac sales record increase solely based on Apples introduction of the Mac store. Whilst relatively new and building, experts expect to see the same record change from PC's to Macs, based on the same fundamental system that got a major percentage of the world using mobile Apple products in the first place. The past quarter results currently reflect industry expert analysis based on news stories published thus far, with the statistics from past quarter results.

I know PC users are struggling... I once struggled with the concept... but Apple is kicking the crap out of PC right now, and people with far more knowledge than myself seem to think that dominance trend is going to continue, regardless what some say about pricing.

PC sales growth slump, thus impacting Windows sales: http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/185522/20110723/microsoft-windows-7-8-tablets-ipad.htm due to people shifting to tablets, more so, iPad... which is how people like myself, then shifted to Mac... because once you start with iphone and ipad, you then look at mac itself... thus making the change.

Our teenager was telling us the other week, how the majority of his class use Macs now... mostly the airbook or small macbook, as all school work is done on computer now. Interesting... with genY here adopting more Mac approach than PC. More than likely something to do with all the Mac stores popping up in major shopping centers, with a touch and play marketing approach, which PC's just aren't doing, as there sold uniquely through such a variance in store types and mixed in with general consumer electronics in large chain stores....

Apple are extremely smart in their marketing approach, which seems to be paying off IMHO.
 
Anthony Parsons said:
Quite funny, yet interesting, to see what happens when people love their OS!!!

Sales.... growth.... market dominance increase...

iPhone: http://www.slashgear.com/apple-grabs-two-thirds-of-mobile-phone-industry-profits-29168396/

iPhone and iPad sales up 125%, iMac and macbook also climbing, especially with the introduction of the Mac App store, bringing mobile mac users to Mac systems.

Global experts anticipate Mac sales record increase solely based on Apples introduction of the Mac store. Whilst relatively new and building, experts expect to see the same record change from PC's to Macs, based on the same fundamental system that got a major percentage of the world using mobile Apple products in the first place. The past quarter results currently reflect industry expert analysis based on news stories published thus far, with the statistics from past quarter results.

I know PC users are struggling... I once struggled with the concept... but Apple is kicking the crap out of PC right now, and people with far more knowledge than myself seem to think that dominance trend is going to continue, regardless what some say about pricing.

PC sales growth slump, thus impacting Windows sales: http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/185522/20110723/microsoft-windows-7-8-tablets-ipad.htm due to people shifting to tablets, more so, iPad... which is how people like myself, then shifted to Mac... because once you start with iphone and ipad, you then look at mac itself... thus making the change.

Our teenager was telling us the other week, how the majority of his class use Macs now... mostly the airbook or small macbook, as all school work is done on computer now. Interesting... with genY here adopting more Mac approach than PC. More than likely something to do with all the Mac stores popping up in major shopping centers, with a touch and play marketing approach, which PC's just aren't doing, as there sold uniquely through such a variance in store types and mixed in with general consumer electronics in large chain stores....

Apple are extremely smart in their marketing approach, which seems to be paying off IMHO.
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I 'm really surprised at you anthony. Not once have I seen you reply directly to a question and explain why you obviously think maccys (apple) are a better product than pcs. All I've seen is stats on their growth which means nothing. Is that to say let's take vbulletin for example since you compared xenforo and vbulletin. Because vbulletin is a more popular package, it's a bigger seller does that indeed mean that you think it's a better product? They're a bigger company right? they must be better, they sell more, again they must be better right?Don't tell me, the maccy is on auto response to reply to this thread? I want a maccy. :cry:

As for the comment about people loving their OS/products i have to admit the only time i heard "I love my <insert here>" was from an ipaddy owner and I'll say what I said to him love his an emotion that I personally feel (just my opinion mind) which is better spent on your family members? You might want to search for that thread, if memory recalls it turned sour very fast. :censored:

To answer your question Dean before you create your pm yes you will gain more friends by purchasing a maccy. :LOL:
 
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