Man IDK. Google's ai tools and data are superior to Apple, Microsoft and even Amazon by large large margins. Facebook and their social data is another story. I tend to think that with respect to raw data it's a landslide win for Google in the data and intelligence space which really is all that matters.
AMP or No AMP?
- Thread starter joroom
- Start date
dethfire
Well-known member
I'm not sure of the appeal of AMP for forums. Why feed watered down content to users? The AMP framework limits so much of what you can do. Forget most addons. I haven't read anything to suggest AMP has any effect on SEO. Do AMPed forum pages out rank their non AMPed pages? Is user experience improved over nonAMP? I doubt it. It was built for breaking news stories, not old forum content.
joroom
Active member
I think it does affect seo ranking.
Whenever i do a google search, it is always amp results on top.
dethfire
Well-known member
For the news carousal right? Not in the organic search results.
blackforest
Member
I'm finding a lot of AMP pages in the organic search results - but only if I use a mobile device.
That's exactly what AMP was made for.
I'd really appreciate if XF 2 would support AMP.
It's simply a good technology and drives a lot of additional mobile traffic to websites - and that's the reason, why we're running websites.
dethfire
Well-known member
Still not a page rank factor
Will AMP improve your rankings? How to set up an AMP test
Wondering if AMP is worth the investment? Columnist Stephanie LeVonne walks through how to set up a test to determine what kind of boost, if any, you can expect from implementing AMP across your mobile site.
searchengineland.com
I enabled AMP on a wordpress blog with some 10k posts and I didn't see any seo effect or increase in traffic, even 3 years in now. So I don't know what you all expect to happen.
blackforest
Member
... better read the full article: "overall rankings did improve over time (...)".
It's a well-known fact, that AMP doesn't affect all websites, but is able to push tons of additional traffic to a lot of sites and has many other indirect SEO advantages (e.g. improving user experience) as well. (see e.g. https://moz.com/blog/amp-digital-marketing-2018)
For sure, it's not cool, if it didn't improve your blog, but there are millions of pages out there that definitely could be pushed by AMP.
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Recep Baltaş
Well-known member
Kill Google AMP before it kills the web
Trust, independence, credibility – we've heard of thosewww.theregister.co.uk
Oh, look who has enabled AMP on their werbsite. Hypocrite morons...
blackforest
Member
Yes, you are right - even theregister.co.uk meanwhile enabled AMP. (https://www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2017/05/19/open_source_insider_google_amp_bad_bad_bad/)
More than one year after my last posting in this thread, AMP is still relevant.
I don't like it, but it works.
So I absolutely don't get the point why XF 2 does neither support AMP nor there is any plugin/add-on to implement AMP for XF 2.
Recep Baltaş
Well-known member
Forums need to evolve just like every other platform. I switched to XenForo because of modern features. It has mentions, emojis, mobile support, a decent UI, alerts, push notifications etc. The team should not hold back on AMP. AMP is another step in the right direction. PWA is what comes next.
blackforest
Member
I fully agree! I also switched from phpBB to Xenforo, because it was supporting 'state of the art features',
but things have changed the last years.
We need AMP - immediately - to drive additional traffic to our forums. As long as XF 2 doesn't support AMP, we'll not switch to XF 2 - and perhaps have to find another system that is supporting AMP. Switching away from Xenforo isn't that complicated and meanwhile I'm definitely willing to do that if Xenforo will continue ignoring the current state of the art techniques.
but things have changed the last years.
We need AMP - immediately - to drive additional traffic to our forums. As long as XF 2 doesn't support AMP, we'll not switch to XF 2 - and perhaps have to find another system that is supporting AMP. Switching away from Xenforo isn't that complicated and meanwhile I'm definitely willing to do that if Xenforo will continue ignoring the current state of the art techniques.
Recep Baltaş
Well-known member
Holy ****. I saw the future! Nice to see XenForo team adopting new tech as always! AMP please!
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djbaxter
in memoriam 1947-2022
Page experience: a Google ranking factor
In May 2022, Google launched new metrics called Web Vitals. Combining with existing experience factors, these will form the page experience update.
The writing has been on the while for some time now. AMP is headed for obsolescence.
Masetrix
Well-known member
That only appears to solve our problem.
We need AMP because the MobileStyle of XF is very slow compared to the Desktopstyle.
As long as XF doesn't change this, AMP will still be needed to compensate for this because speed is still a big factor in ranking ...
djbaxter
in memoriam 1947-2022
Mobile internet connections are significantly slower than typical desktop connections, regardless of the platform or type of site. And even for desktops, ethernet connections are faster than wireless connections.
It's silly to blame the software or platform for slower mobile load speeds. That doesn't mean it's pointless to try to optimize for mobile but just recognize that you are pretty much always going to get the best connection with a hard-wired ethernet connection to a cable ISP or similar.
It's silly to blame the software or platform for slower mobile load speeds. That doesn't mean it's pointless to try to optimize for mobile but just recognize that you are pretty much always going to get the best connection with a hard-wired ethernet connection to a cable ISP or similar.
Masetrix
Well-known member
Why if it's true?
As long as you don't use Google Ads, the difference is not a problem. For all operators who use Google Ads, on the other hand, there is a difference whether PageSpeedInsights shows red or orange for the speed or even green for the MobileStyle.
We have tried everything and more here to optimize the mobile style so that the value of Google is not RED. Unfortunately unsuccessful.
Well, in the beta test of @mazzly's AmpAddon, the values that Google shows are much improved.
Not only are the values for the speed of the Mobilestyle better since we started using the add-on, even if a few corrections are still required, the number of visitors (...) has also increased.
I don't know why you make such statements. Sure, Google doesn't care if you have Amp installed or not. AMP itself no longer has any advantages. The speed, however, that arises from the add-on for Mobilestyle from XF in connection with Google Ads still brings advantages.
See the graphic on the right, orange is the Google rating of the speed of our pages on desktops, red was the Google rating of the speed of our pages for mobile before AMP, green is now with AMP ...
Well minded, each with advertising.
It doesn't matter how you see it yourself at home in your own test environment. It is important how the hand that feeds you sees it ...
.
djbaxter
in memoriam 1947-2022
The use of AMP does not contradict what I said above. When you use AMP, you strip out a lot of the look and feel that constitutes the branding of your forum and yes that will mean a page will load faster.
My point was that this does not indicate a problem with the responsive "mobile" version of Xenforo. It works exactly as it's supposed to or designed to work. It preserves most of the features and customizations and branding of your XF forum. AMP achieves its speed gains by throwing those away.
There's also a difference between the technology scores used to indicate load speed and the practical user experience of your forum members in accessing your pages. How fast do you really need to load your pages? And what does it mean if your score on mobile says 50%? or 60% or 30%?
It doesn't necessarily mean that the user experience is one of a painfully slow website. For most mobile devices, most even partially optimized XF forums will load fast enough that having your visitors abandon the site is not an issue.
The real question to me is how fast is fast enough? Or how slow is too slow?
Google has made it very clear that since their initial push starting a few years back most websites now load faster than they used to and that it is no longer the major problem it was when the Google push began. But no matter what you do comparable pages on your site are always going to load more slowly on mobile than on a decent desktop cable connection. That's simply the nature of the technology.
When 5G becomes more accessible, that will likely speed up mobile connections. And at some point we'll probably see 6G and 7G. But while that is happening, connect speeds for desktop cable connections are also going to be getting even faster too. I had a fast cable connection which served me well for the past few years, but I recently discovered that my ISP had a plan which quadrupled that speed and for less money than I was paying on the old plan. (Some of this is undoubtedly prompted by the increased interest ib and use of streaming services for movies, music, etc., not to mention the "internet of things".
My point was that this does not indicate a problem with the responsive "mobile" version of Xenforo. It works exactly as it's supposed to or designed to work. It preserves most of the features and customizations and branding of your XF forum. AMP achieves its speed gains by throwing those away.
There's also a difference between the technology scores used to indicate load speed and the practical user experience of your forum members in accessing your pages. How fast do you really need to load your pages? And what does it mean if your score on mobile says 50%? or 60% or 30%?
It doesn't necessarily mean that the user experience is one of a painfully slow website. For most mobile devices, most even partially optimized XF forums will load fast enough that having your visitors abandon the site is not an issue.
The real question to me is how fast is fast enough? Or how slow is too slow?
Google has made it very clear that since their initial push starting a few years back most websites now load faster than they used to and that it is no longer the major problem it was when the Google push began. But no matter what you do comparable pages on your site are always going to load more slowly on mobile than on a decent desktop cable connection. That's simply the nature of the technology.
When 5G becomes more accessible, that will likely speed up mobile connections. And at some point we'll probably see 6G and 7G. But while that is happening, connect speeds for desktop cable connections are also going to be getting even faster too. I had a fast cable connection which served me well for the past few years, but I recently discovered that my ISP had a plan which quadrupled that speed and for less money than I was paying on the old plan. (Some of this is undoubtedly prompted by the increased interest ib and use of streaming services for movies, music, etc., not to mention the "internet of things".
Masetrix
Well-known member
The problem that mobile pages are slower than desktop pages at XF can be easily tested as follows:
Open in the ACP
/admin.php?styles/default-style.1/style-properties/group&group=page
Change the settings in "Maximum page width" from whatever, to 480px
Save the new value and start:
developers.google.com
Enter the address of your homepage there...
Remember the values for mobile and desktop
Change the value in "Maximum page width" back to the old value and save again.
Save the value and start:
https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/ again.
Enter the address of your homepage there...
Conclusion:
So far, XF first renders too much to the settings of the value in "Maximum page width" and then has to render it back to the size of the mobile style.
Therefore mobile is slower than desktop ...
Better - and with the performance of XF - it would be a real hammer to first see whether you have to render, mobile or desktop, and only then start rendering. Then XF would be unbeatable here too: D
Open in the ACP
/admin.php?styles/default-style.1/style-properties/group&group=page
Change the settings in "Maximum page width" from whatever, to 480px
Save the new value and start:
PageSpeed Insights
developers.google.com
Remember the values for mobile and desktop
Change the value in "Maximum page width" back to the old value and save again.
Save the value and start:
https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/ again.
Enter the address of your homepage there...
Conclusion:
So far, XF first renders too much to the settings of the value in "Maximum page width" and then has to render it back to the size of the mobile style.
Therefore mobile is slower than desktop ...
Better - and with the performance of XF - it would be a real hammer to first see whether you have to render, mobile or desktop, and only then start rendering. Then XF would be unbeatable here too: D
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