Addon Section Fair Use?

[CTXMedia]

Well, I suppose we have to let developers do what is best for them. They are the ones putting in the work to give us all the little "extras" that we so often want in order to extend our sites.

It would be good to have a central - go-to - point for everything (from a customer perspective), but then some developers and skinners support other platforms too, and may naturally want to provide their services and support on their own business site where they are in control and can make whatever changes best suit their method of operation.

They may also prefer to use a different payment gateway too, so yes, I guess it has to, ultimately, be left to the developer to chose their preferred method of distribution/support.

Cheers,
Shaun

 

[Floris]

So CK, you rather have me not share it with anybody here as a courtesy- and instead force them to find it somewhere else, forcing them to register on the site just to get it. Just so you're not annoyed.

That's fine.

 

[ChemicalKicks]

So CK, you rather have me not share it with anybody here as a courtesy- and instead force them to find it somewhere else, forcing them to register on the site just to get it. Just so you're not annoyed.

That's fine.

Don't be such a drama queen. I said it was annoying, fill your boots whatever which way you like.

 

[Shelley]

What is annoying when resources are provided for free and people complain and even involve themselves in threads and constantly (I think it's safe to use it now because there just isn't a better word) "Harrass" resource providers (designers, stylers coders). This will eventually be a case where "your annoyance" is met with the person providing simply not releasing here and alerting you that there is a resource released.

Essentially, one thing will come out of this is that the people out in force will only cut their noses despite their faces. The issue here isn't whether the thread is locked it's the growing problem that more and more people around here harrass people here for providing free works, out of their own free time. Can you see the madness in that?

Anyway, I'm not defending the person in question here so let's get that one straight but the issue that more and more developers, stylers, designers around here are getting crap for something that they shouldn't be getting.

Anyway, regarding the separate site for releasing add-ons (collectively resources) I think once the resource manager is implemented it'll transform and make things easier the way resource providers release here (for the better) I say resource providers meaning that there is more to xenforo than the coders.

The simple fact of the matter is the more contributors whom are being burnt at the stake around here the less resources that you have come to enjoy will be submitted because the people that feed you will simply stop releasing, period.

 

[ChemicalKicks]

Who's being burnt at the stake? For the most part the large majority of the community openly support the various content providers, another percentage even pay for the services. If you provide a service free or paid you're going to get feedback whether you like it or not. I haven't seen any maliciously crafted posts directed at coders, sure I've seen some negative comments but none that have put me off.

At the end of the day if you put yourself on a pedestal you're going to get knocked off at some point. There's a fantastic relationship here between the membership. To scold end users for giving their opinion defeats the purpose of sharing on a forum in the first place.

I'm more than willing to share the love and my money but let's not all get grand ideas.

 

[yavuz]

I visit a lot of add-on pages, thank the developers for spending their free time for free add-ons. I must say that I don't like it a bit when I visit an add-on page and get redirected to the authors page to download that add-on. Even it's free it doesn't leave a good impression on me. This has been done for some of the styles, I didn't like that either.

That said, I don't want this to undermine all the good work is done by the contributers here on xenforo. Just my honest opinion.

 

[borbole]

And why does somebody need to support it?
Do you know how time-consuming this is?
Why shouldn't a coder be allowed to say: take it as it is, ignore this release thread, or get a paid member account at my page, where i'm able to provide better support and where i'm open for suggestions?

I thought people would be thankful if somebody release a add-on (at least i was it, as got my first forum and i needed all the phpbb add-ons) but xenforo.com showed, that it isn't so.

If a add-on is paid => people will complain
If a add-on is released without support => people will complain
If the add-on coder doesn't include feature xyz => somebody will complain...

Very well said ragtek. It seems like no matter what, some will complain anyway. There is no pleasing them. The only way that they would find it totally to their satisfaction is if the coder hand deleivered the mod to their house and while they are at it, even install it at their forum so they do not have to lift a finger themselves.

Ubelievable how selfish some people are. Just look at most of the release threads. Most of the time that users leave a comment is when they run into difficulties with installing the mod, or when they want to ask the mod author to add more functionality and of course, to complain for one or the other reason. God forbid, if they will say a simple thank you to the add on coder for the work that he/she did to create that add on and was kind to share it with everyone. That is the main reason that personally I would never release free mods anymore, be that a single line or a thousand lines of code.

 

[Floris]

Who's being burnt at the stake? For the most part the large majority of the community openly support the various content providers, another percentage even pay for the services. If you provide a service free or paid you're going to get feedback whether you like it or not. I haven't seen any maliciously crafted posts directed at coders, sure I've seen some negative comments but none that have put me off.

At the end of the day if you put yourself on a pedestal you're going to get knocked off at some point. There's a fantastic relationship here between the membership. To scold end users for giving their opinion defeats the purpose of sharing on a forum in the first place.

I'm more than willing to share the love and my money but let's not all get grand ideas.

You're acting somewhat retarded at this point.

Just because one is helping another writing a plugin and sharing it on this site as well, doesn't mean the intention is to be on a pedestal or alike. It's a shared universe of xenforo and we all benefit from sharing. We do what we can and we share what we can. Making sure the support we promise is the support we can give by tunneling it through a site where we're more active than on say here.

There's a difference between giving feedback about a resource and complaining here about not getting support here directly.

It is people who can't see further than themselves here that result in narrow minded opinions that are based on 'i want' attitudes that get those who desire to share something they've made to reconsider in the future.

 

[Shelley]

Who's being burnt at the stake? For the most part the large majority of the community openly support the various content providers, another percentage even pay for the services. If you provide a service free or paid you're going to get feedback whether you like it or not. I haven't seen any maliciously crafted posts directed at coders, sure I've seen some negative comments but none that have put me off.

At the end of the day if you put yourself on a pedestal you're going to get knocked off at some point. There's a fantastic relationship here between the membership. To scold end users for giving their opinion defeats the purpose of sharing on a forum in the first place.

I'm more than willing to share the love and my money but let's not all get grand ideas.

There's giving feedback and there's trying to tell an author the way they should release a resource. Every contributor will embrace constructive feedback what they won't appreciate is people telling them how to release them.

I'm sure your not put out or off by the negative comments if your one of the people happily using that resource (free of charge).

Anyway, walking away from this thread as the outcome will be clear, the more this happens the more people that contribute will simply stop releasing and/or block you which would hamper any support you may need for that particular resource in the future

 

[ChemicalKicks]

Shelley I don't disagree with you there

All I've said is that the users here quite rightly have an opinion which they may wish to express, there's no point in anyone taking it personally.

 

[Floris]

It's just amazing to see that when I spend an afternoon (and I am certainly not good at this so I am figuring it out as I go) talking to someone on a site where I moderate about a manually created about.html file that obviously needs to be replaced. That instead of me shrugging at it and saying 'good luck with that', that I at no cost (because I can consider to charge $25 to $99/hour and/or plugin) decide to try and throw something together. While talking about how it comes together and what people might like who use it. You realize this could be shared with others, such as sites I run myself. Perhaps sites my team runs. Nah, let's consider to go a step further.. Let's discuss if we should charge for this plugin. Give it away for free to the site who I made it for in the first place. But limit it to our Premium members (a free resource for our existing ones as a freebie) ... nah. Why bother adding a value to it. Let's give it to all the xenfans members. That way anybody who visits our site can use it, leave feedback, get support, and help improve the product. And maybe at some point in 2012 share it on xenforo.com as well. Or perhaps sell it to one of those third party sites that buy up plugins to grow their commercial plugin making/selling business. Nah. let's just give it away to everybody. There have been so many requests about custom pages and requests to code something for money to just have an about page, or perhaps some sort of extra page. The whole code is thrown out and the evening is used to rewrite it so it can be shared publicly. After considering options the only downside is to give support. We're simply not available at all times and we don't want a plugin to die because we're ignoring support questions or feature suggestions. So we release it everywhere - funneling questions/suggestions to our one thread. And release updates (5 in the meantime) just to makes sure it works for everybody (so nobody has to wait a week or up to a month).

And the only feedback on xenforo we've had was a thread where they complain that we shouldn't approach it like this.

Not knowing the history of a plugin, not understanding we're simply deciding to share with everybody rather than making it an addon we can charge for. Not limiting it to usergroups or web sites, as we do with some of our resources. Another decision to give back to this community while it's still growing .. But we're being judged, annoying behavior, pedestool attitude, etc.

No wonder ragtek is closing his threads here as well. And others have limited their resources to commercial sites and sell to big boards for $500+ and others simply stop developing or give away exclusive licenses. Something nobody really benefits from except those exclusive downloaders.

A quick simple plugin might be more than you think, has no value perhaps - maybe not even to your interest.

But there's still more to it than you might realize, the world's bigger than you are - and oh boohoo so sorry it's annoying to you.

It's annoying to me too that a registration on a third party site is required. I've reported the threads in the past to get a discussion going. Nothing changed. So the team here simply approves those releases. So this is a non-discussion anyway.

You said we share it in public so we can expect negative feedback as well. That's correct. You comment your opinion and I have no problem explaining myself, defending my actions, and giving my opinion in return for it.

However my post reply is to your comments. Your post is about behavior, not the actual product.

Maybe I was just fooling myself that the vBulletin.org community attitude would stay with vborg, but it seems it's not always any different ..

You do your best for something and there's always someone that doesn't like it but has to make a fuzz about it - publicly.

Maybe that's why I sometimes express myself without holding back - because it's so easy to get sucked into that mood on a site at times.

 

[EQnoble]

Shelley I don't disagree with you there

All I've said is that the users here quite rightly have an opinion which they may wish to express, there's no point in anyone taking it personally.

First off...I would like to say that if no one is breaking a forum rule ...no one should be complaining about the actions of another person here.

Stating an opinion based on someone else's actions is actually you putting them on a pedestal...not themselves....and when someone is talking and has the floor that is being at a pedestal...it has nothing to do with residual self imaging. If they are not breaking a rule and a moderator closed the thread for him by request....it is not a problem....it shouldn't be made into one.

Maybe he has the logic of, here you go this is free ...me to you (who ever you are), if you require help from me...ask here at (x.com) as that is where I offer support all day. Maybe he also doesn't want people joining a thread he is not watching constantly just to flame him and detract users who could find the addon useful by making users wary of trying the addon. Maybe he feels if one appreciates his free work enough, one will go to his site to ask him a question about it or to ask how to customize it for ones needs. Maybe he feels this is a way to keep trolls out of his addon threads at a site in which he cannot moderate his product thread.

Your freedom of opinion doesn't extend past anothers freedoms especially if the person is well within the confines of the rules. I don't understand how an opinion of a person can't be taken personally.

 

[ChemicalKicks]

Are we even discussing the same thing now?

 

[EQnoble]

At this point if you have to ask I would say no.

 

[Saeed]

Come on guys...this was not the intention of this thread. And there are plenty of people out there who DO appreciate all the work and time developers put in. We may be few in number, but even if we do run into an issue, we start our post with "Dear developer, thank you very much for this addon. I had a question regarding...".

I do accept that at times support threads are plagued by questions about problems with installation or even silly questions about the function of an addon for which it was never developed...but you can't let that negativity get to you.

I'm sure every developer has his own beliefs and ethics regarding the hard work they put in, where to release it and whether to release it at all or not...but let's not let all this negativity get the better of us, can we?

 

[ChemicalKicks]

At this point if you have to ask I would say no.

Well we agree on something then. Because in no way was your response even remotely tied to what I've said. Your arguing something I do not disagree with but setting out your reply as if Ive said something else

 

[Sadik B]

I wanted to keep off this thread, but I must make a comment seeing that I was the one who created the thread in the first place.

Firstly the Addon Developers who are saying that hey everyone complains I have had enough, I will no longer release free mods are doing nothing but using this as an excuse to justify themselves. What is so difficult about releasing as Addon, saying in the post that I will not support it as I have no time so enjoy it as is, and then ignore the thread! Who is chaining you to a computer with a bullet on your head that you must solve everyone's issues? I can afford to say this because I create Addons too and I have one excellent Addon planned as soon as 1.1 comes out. If I don't want to support it, I will just say so and ignore the thread. When again, I upgrade it for my site, I will release the update. I see the "Oh no one appreciates our hard work" as nothing but an excuse. If it's so tough, just stay away from free addon releasing sites and have your own premium place and charge people. Post your work as a genuine advertisement in the third party services forum instead of doing the whole I am such an altruist and generous charade. The plain fact is that you want to advertise your site or your premium service and are using the free addons as nothing but an Advertisment device. I am fine with it and I feel it's a good practice but please don't pretend that your generosity is being met by complains. You are NOT being generous. You derive much more long term benefit by a free addon here than having 10 paid ones on your own site.

Free Addons serve several purposes. It builds your reputation, helps you procure lucrative paid and custom jobs and best of all gives the feel good factor of doing something for the enjoyment and love of it.

Having said that there are indeed a lot of people who can be a PITA, when supporting a free addon. Some I choose to ignore (in the few VBulletin Mods I released), for some directing them to FAQ does it and for others who just demand too much work, I quote a price in a PM. If they want the extension to the addon they can pay me.

Finally, I DEFINITELY DID NOT intend this thread to get into such negativity. My only point was that whatever be the reason for the Addon and whatever means of distribution and support, please at least keep your threads open. Closing them after just releasing them shows this place as an AD Dumping device. I did not intend to personally hurt anyone and I am sorry if anyone felt that way.

Edit: Another point I forgot to mention was that it does not mean that everyone does free resources for Advertisements. Most Do it for the love and enjoyment of it and only few do it for promotion. And what I said about Addons as advertisements was not for most but only those few.

 

[Shelley]

I wanted to keep off this thread, but I must make a comment seeing that I was the one who created the thread in the first place.

Firstly the Addon Developers who are saying that hey everyone complains I have had enough, I will no longer release free mods are doing nothing but using this as an excuse to justify themselves. What is so difficult about releasing as Addon, saying in the post that I will not support it as I have no time so enjoy it as is, and then ignore the thread! Who is chaining you to a computer with a bullet on your head that you must solve everyone's issues? I can afford to say this because I create Addons too and I have one excellent Addon planned as soon as 1.1 comes out. If I don't want to support it, I will just say so and ignore the thread. When again, I upgrade it for my site, I will release the update. I see the "Oh no one appreciates our hard work" as nothing but an excuse. If it's so tough, just stay away from free addon releasing sites and have your own premium place and charge people. Post your work as a genuine advertisement in the third party services forum instead of doing the whole I am such an altruist and generous charade. The plain fact is that you want to advertise your site or your premium service and are using the free addons as nothing but an Advertisment device. I am fine with it and I feel it's a good practice but please don't pretend that your generosity is being met by complains. You are NOT being generous. You derive much more long term benefit by a free addon here than having 10 paid ones on your own site.

Free Addons serve several purposes. It builds your reputation, helps you procure lucrative paid and custom jobs and best of all gives the feel good factor of doing something for the enjoyment and love of it.

Having said that there are indeed a lot of people who can be a PITA, when supporting a free addon. Some I choose to ignore (in the few VBulletin Mods I released), for some directing them to FAQ does it and for others who just demand too much work, I quote a price in a PM. If they want the extension to the addon they can pay me.

Finally, I DEFINITELY DID NOT intend this thread to get into such negativity. My only point was that whatever be the reason for the Addon and whatever means of distribution and support, please at least keep your threads open. Closing them after just releasing them shows this place as an AD Dumping device. I did not intend to personally hurt anyone and I am sorry if anyone felt that way.

It's posts like this that make me want to get the resource threads I submitted here closed. The selfishness with some people really does show. #selfishness #neverhappy

 

[ChemicalKicks]

It's posts like this that make me want to get the resource threads I submitted here closed. The selfishness with some people really does show. #selfishness #neverhappy

I would counter the exact opposite, it's posts like yours tbh.

How can you call him out for being selfish?

 

[Sadik B]

It's posts like this that make me want to get the resource threads I submitted here closed. The selfishness with some people really does show. #selfishness #neverhappy

I am sorry Shelley if you feel that way. I edited the post to make myself clearer. I have tremendous respect for your work.