******* add-on cannot be uninstalled

[Daniel Hood]

I must admit I don't like the idea of xenforo staff asserting themselves here although I get the user base calling for it. I like the idea of custom fields being used to explain the installation process. I think it should be up to customers to do some research of their own before purchasing. I see people with long track records of bad practices (not just *******) and people still act surprised when all they had to do was read.

I don't think ******* should be banned from adding resources and I don't think xenforo should start reviewing our code. I do however think a proper notice should be given and given the circumstances people shouldn't be purchasing his add ons under the current procedures used.

I personally like that there's a free market here and I would hate to see that go away.

 

[Mike Edge]

We are discussing options and ideas internally.

Once we have finalised everything, any decisions we have reached will be posted.

I hope this doesn't lead to something like vBulletin does where only free add-ons can be posted and premium ones can't be advertised.

 

[Kevin]

... None of the uninstall methods can actually be seen in the add-on files, you are reliant on them being executed from the remote server ...
What is to stop them getting pissed off with someone, and setting the uninstall routine to drop the whole database?? You'd only find out when all your data was gone.

Ah, the actual code is not visible and could be doing something totally unknown at actual run time since it is being dynamically generated remotely.

Thanks for the posting the details, now I get why some of you guys/gals are just a tad bit concerned about this one particular dev versus license validation methods some other devs use.

 

[dawg]

What is to stop them getting pissed off with someone, and setting the uninstall routine to drop the whole database?? You'd only find out when all your data was gone.

This is the most troubling sentence in this entire thread. For someone like me that would be devastating if someone took my database that took me years of sweat blood and tears to build. I do have a backup system running live where i can roll back but still this is very troubling.

 

[Sheldon]

What is to stop them getting pissed off with someone, and setting the uninstall routine to drop the whole database?? You'd only find out when all your data was gone.

This is the most troubling sentence in this entire thread. For someone like me that would be devastating if someone took my database that took me years of sweat. blood and tears to build. I do have a backup system running live where i can roll back but still this is very troubling.

I'm glad I uninstalled before handing out that rating. This makes me think twice before handing out a valid critique over anything.

 

[Mike Edge]

This is the most troubling sentence in this entire thread. For someone like me that would be devastating if someone took my database that took me years of sweat. blood and tears to build. I do have a backup system running live where i can roll back but still this is very troubling.

Or even more so, someone like me.. Hosting xenforo communities as a living, as any lose of data is always the hosts fault. Of course I do hourly backups via R!Soft, but still a hassle, even more so dealing with restoring InnoDB tables.

 

[Mike Edge]

I guess an option also could be deleting the helper folder and changing the database name after finishing installing addons.

 

[dawg]

I hope this doesn't lead to something like vBulletin does where only free add-ons can be posted and premium ones can't be advertised.

I agree with you on this. I feel it will only make things worse. Speaking of vBulletin add ons there is a company over there that makes a killing by spamming links in your footer for hosting companies that is required to be there for licensing. I got ripped off by these people for over 100 on addon that didnt work. I never got my money back. I dont want to see any company like that one here at Xenforo thats for sure.

I can only imagine what is in their code lol

 

[Mike Edge]

Speaking of vBulletin add ons there is a company over there that makes a killing by spamming links in your footer for hosting companies that is required to be there for licensing. I got ripped off by these people for over 100 on addon that didnt work.

*cough* DragonByte *sneeze* sorry this weather changes got to my allergies

 

[dawg]

*cough* DragonByte *sneeze* sorry this weather changes got to my allergies

Bless you!

 

[rainmotorsports]

*cough* DragonByte *sneeze* sorry this weather changes got to my allergies

Heh the site I work on was a customer of theirs back on vB. Didn't have an issue with them myself but I kinda didn't like their owners excuse for not bringing development to Xenforo.

 

[dawg]

Heh the site I work on was a customer of theirs back on vB. Didn't have an issue with them myself but I kinda didn't like their owners excuse for not bringing development to Xenforo.

We have some hard nose savvy admin here that I doubt would welcome their shenanigans to Xenforo

 

[rainmotorsports]

We have some hard nose savvy admin here that I doubt would welcome their shenanigans to Xenforo

Well in "their" defense its not one developer its many. So for example the developer that I have personal dealings with might not be rejected if he did his own work here. It could be argued that anyone continuing to work for them deserves the rep. You have to remember that when they leave, they leave their work with that company.

The guy who runs DragonByte Tech is not a developer. Which is probably part of the problem. People with business degree's... just shaking my head.

 

[dawg]

Well in "their" defense its not one developer its many. So for example the developer that I have personal dealings with might not be rejected if he did his own work here. It could be argued that anyone continuing to work for them deserves the rep. You have to remember that when they leave, they leave their work with that company.

The guy who runs DragonByte Tech is not a developer. Which is probably part of the problem. People with business degree's... just shaking my head.

No doubt but that name sends chills up the spine of many here, i would not use that name

 

[Paul B]

I hope this doesn't lead to something like vBulletin does where only free add-ons can be posted and premium ones can't be advertised.

No, why would it?

 

[Ridemonkey]

I must admit I don't like the idea of xenforo staff asserting themselves here although I get the user base calling for it. I like the idea of custom fields being used to explain the installation process. I think it should be up to customers to do some research of their own before purchasing. I see people with long track records of bad practices (not just *******) and people still act surprised when all they had to do was read.

I don't think ******* should be banned from adding resources and I don't think xenforo should start reviewing our code. I do however think a proper notice should be given and given the circumstances people shouldn't be purchasing his add ons under the current procedures used.

I personally like that there's a free market here and I would hate to see that go away.

I agree with most of this, but I have a little bit of an issue with "people still act surprised when all they had to do was read." I agree that people should do a little research into who they're buying from and what they're installing, but what can appear to someone watching as a long track record of bad practices can actually be hard to find doing forum searches. It's not always easy to piece together a history from searches, especially when you don't know what you're specifically searching for.

I mean, how would you find this particular issue? If I search for "*******" I get a freakin' ton of results that are mostly resources. If I search for "******* problem" I get mostly support questions in the resource threads. "******* scam" returns this thread, but only this thread, so there's no history/track record, and the only reason that even shows is because ONE person in this thread said they didn't want to buy from scam artists - not even directed at *******. It's hard to know what to research for.

In any event, there's no way that the XF staff could effectively review all code, but that doesn't mean they can't assert themselves a little. If an agreement can be reached about what does need to happen (e.g. proper declaration of when calls are made outside the XF install server), it puts the staff in a position to be able to act if such practices are discovered and brought to the staff's attention.

 

[Snog]

e.g. proper declaration of when calls are made outside the XF install server

I have to ask... What would you consider a proper declaration?

Most (if not all) of my paid add-ons have this..

Server must have cURL installed for installation and updates

Is that good enough? Or do I have to describe the entire process?

What about add-ons that make calls outside the server as a part of the add-on? I have at least three that do that.

This has all been blown way out of proportion. A poor decision was made about how an author's licensing works. Let him correct it and see how it goes.

IMHO, the only possible restriction that makes any sense at all is to require add-ons to have an unrestricted uninstall routine delivered with the add-on. The installation method should be left in the hands of the developer.

 

[Tefka]

I must admit I don't like the idea of xenforo staff asserting themselves here although I get the user base calling for it. I like the idea of custom fields being used to explain the installation process. I think it should be up to customers to do some research of their own before purchasing. I see people with long track records of bad practices (not just *******) and people still act surprised when all they had to do was read.

As a consumer, I'm angry, and to know that the Xenforo Staff is or has talked about it makes me feel better about the situation at hand. I like that @Snog pointed out that this is a slippery slope with potential devastating consequences for Developers, but I have faith in the Xenforo Staff - and the 3rd party developers - that this slippery slope will be evaded and avoided as easily as it is to quote stuff now (seriously, 1.4 is awesome).

 

[HWS]

What would you consider a proper declaration?

A proper declaration in your case (and in all other cases) would be to describe in detail what information you collect and if (and for how long) it is stored at your server.

In your special case, you should also state that you're going to deliver and deploy all updates directly from your server and provide an optional method to skip this for a manual process.

The developer should ask for the customers consent to the data transfer before allowing to download the add-on.

Uninstall or even install routines which fail if the server of the add-on developer isn't online should generally not be allowed. What if someone goes out of business? If an add-on does this, it should -at least- also be properly declared.

 

[FredC]

I for one am tired of being treated like a pirate by developers esp those that don't seem to care that I can't read code. I will strongly be referencing this thread in the future when I'm purchasing my next round of plug-ins. The buyer beware approach is dead wrong in my opinion dead wrong. Nice that just because some of you can read code you have no interest in protecting my interests only your own. I won't forget this thread or some of the opinions by developers by a longshot.