Xenforo has twice the market share of vBulletin

Asides from original domains, XFCloud domains are here:
*.community.forum
See: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:.community.forum

@Brogan are there other subdomains or extensions exclusively used for XFC?
Not really how spiders work (it finds stuff on it's own). If you have to go down a road of putting in every site to spider it would be an impossible task... So not going to start doing that to track XenForo sites (which I literally don't care about whatsoever... just happen to already have the data is all).

If you care that much, there's an enterprise plan for the spider which allows you to control the spider via API: https://iolabs.io/pages/api/#route_get_spider_ ...but don't think anyone does (or should) care that much about XenForo installations to gather a list of URLs to spider. It's intended for other things. :)
 
Judging from the percentage decline being larger than the percentage XenForo is gaining, I'd say it's safe to say that the cumulative number of sites as a whole running "forum" software is in fact going down. It's a lot harder to make a new forum from scratch that competes with social media these days (no surprise there).

That being said, XenForo has built a pretty unbelievable framework... Someday maybe they will pivot and think of themselves as software to run a site that happens to be able to also run a forum vs. forum software that happens to be able to run a site. Most of my XenForo sites have absolutely nothing to do with a forum:

https://rlqry.com/ - A secret society (used for handling applications, potential candidate invitations, management of events, etc.)
https://inmateintake.com/ - A tool to track inmates and some other stuff
https://outgress.com/ - A system where users forward emails automatically and it processes them and turns them into useful data (147M emails have been forwarded so far)
https://iolabs.io/ - A search engine spider that is literally dealing with billions of bits of new data every day.

I have 3 or 4 additional sites in the pipeline/works that also have nothing to do with forums, but use XenForo as a framework.

I've actually turned 15 or so companies on to XenForo purely as a framework for what they are doing (they have no interest in a forum), and guess what? They are now XenForo licensees that don't have a forum.
This is true. My VPN company also uses Xenforo as the framework rather than as a forum. The website, user dashboard, VPN settings etc are all done through Xenforo. Of course, we had to modify some things, but the software is extremely powerful and flexible. I would love to see Xenforo move in the direction of a website package rather than just forums. The billing system could do with an overhaul as an out of the box package, but most of the other stuff is fine.

Regards,
Peter @ OECK.
 
This is true. My VPN company also uses Xenforo as the framework rather than as a forum. The website, user dashboard, VPN settings etc are all done through Xenforo. Of course, we had to modify some things, but the software is extremely powerful and flexible. I would love to see Xenforo move in the direction of a website package rather than just forums. The billing system could do with an overhaul as an out of the box package, but most of the other stuff is fine.

Regards,
Peter @ OECK.
Just a heads up, the site's down

An unexpected database error occurred. Please try again later.
 
Maybe a second product line? Xenforo Platform and Xenforo Social? The former would be a more barebones development platform, the latter would be the current forum system built atop the platform? Just musing but I think they would need to keep the forum piece for those of us who still rely on XF for that purpose.
 
Maybe a second product line? Xenforo Platform and Xenforo Social? The former would be a more barebones development platform, the latter would be the current forum system built atop the platform? Just musing but I think they would need to keep the forum piece for those of us who still rely on XF for that purpose.
You could just have "Applications" that are installed on the underlying framework. An application could effectively be an add-on internally since everything you need is already there. Kind of reminds me of the approach UniFi took with their hardware. You have a core UniFi OS that doesn't really do much by itself (at least not for end users... a framework basically). Then they have applications you can choose to enable/disable.

I have one of these:

...which is a network router/gateway, camera DVR, building access control, phone system manager, etc, etc...

I use it as a network gateway and camera system... but I could enable other applications if I needed.

1678988385961.png


So you could have a Forum application... but you could have other applications too. Like I'm working on a Marketplace add-on for XF2 that is rooted in the same principals that XF forums use. We have Marketplace nodes, which each node having things for sale. Similar to how you can have different forum types (suggestions, discussion, etc), you can have different marketplace types that work slightly differently... like if you were selling a website, it has a lot of the same ways of doing things as a marketplace that sells addons, but there is going to be a little variation (add-ons can be renewed and sold more than once for example). You don't need to do away with forums or spin out separate products, just make it something you can choose to enable or disable... just like other generic applications. Like maybe you are a eCommerce store that doesn't need a forum... fine... enable the marketplace application. But you could also be a mix. Enable forums and marketplaces.

Anyway, just throwing ideas out there... 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Just a heads up, the site's down

An unexpected database error occurred. Please try again later.
Hi JulianD,

Thanks for the heads up. I was doing something but it should not have gone down as we use a lot of databases in order to prevent any downtime. I’ll take a look into it. However, if you see this issue again, please drop me a pm letting me know. I would really appreciate it.

Maybe a second product line? Xenforo Platform and Xenforo Social? The former would be a more barebones development platform, the latter would be the current forum system built atop the platform? Just musing but I think they would need to keep the forum piece for those of us who still rely on XF for that purpose.

They could do so similar to what WoltLab does. The potential for Xenforo seems endless. It is by far the most versatile web software I have ever used.

Regards,
Peter @ OECK.
 
You have a core UniFi OS that doesn't really do much by itself (at least not for end users... a framework basically). Then they have applications you can choose to enable/disable.
Yeah, I am somewhat familiar. We use UniFi access points and security cameras at work. Nice system and a nice model.
 
I have one of these:

...which is a network router/gateway, camera DVR, building access control, phone system manager, etc, etc...

I use it as a network gateway and camera system... but I could enable other applications if I needed.

View attachment 283086
I've finally found someone that uses the Dream Machine Pro rather than Linus Tech Tips! This is very off topic but I'm planning on setting up my house with their cameras and more when I move here in May to a new rental. For the dream machine since it only comes with 1 bay for the recordings do you just deal with that and not having many days of storage or do you have a NAS that also stores recordings?
 
This is an interesting take. I know that in many occasions you and other devs praised the framework, especially since the re-write. But I thought you and your sites are exceptions. Like ofc you can turn this framework into something which has nothing to do with a forum yet use it as an engine to run other type of sites. But from what I understand now it is flexible enough for it not to be just an exception but with the right strategy the "forum software" could expand into other "software" territories. But I think we are already behind with current developments for the "forum" part that this kind of tackle will never happen since they don't have enough men I guess. But would have been interesting and maybe revitalize things, especially get back more devs into the eco-system.
Been working on a project and I was skimming over what I have done so far, and it reminded me of your post. So let me explain what a developer can do with the XenForo framework (it all revolves around not having to build all these things yourself because they've already built it and abstracted the "things" out so they can be easily/quickly reused for other things). My project is a marketplace... but not in the style of a standalone module like the resource manager. Instead, I now have a new node type (so various different marketplaces can sit within XenForo's node tree). We just saved a ton of time because XenForo's node and permission system is pretty great... don't need to build all that.

All types of marketplaces share certain things (they are something being sold... with a description and a price and other various universal things). It's similar to the XenForo's concept of forums (things like posts are universal, but there's some forum type specific variants... article, question, suggestion forum types).

1679626168120.webp


Like an addon can be sold with updates for a certain amount of time (and can be sold multiple times). Where a website marketplace is a set price (or maybe an auction) and can only be sold once. Now right out of the gate, XenForo already has prefixes, custom fields, tags and prompts that can easily be added to new content types (so great, that saves a lot of time since we don't need to build that).

Looking at an addon marketplace node, you get some options specific to addons within the node settings... like are ratings allowed, are reviews allowed, which custom fields to use, etc.

1679626536607.webp


So now we have an addon marketplace within the node tree. I'd separated it out and made it only accessible to me because it's a work in-progress, but I could put it anywhere I want... even as a child to a forum. In fact, if you were so inclined, you could have your entire node tree be only marketplaces (without any forums... now we are effectively an eBay.. hah)

1679626641219.webp


Internally we have a few new content types... if you want to think about how forums are laid out, you have forums -> threads -> posts, where the marketplaces are marketplaces -> marketplace items -> marketplace item updates (for things like addons).

So guess what? 90% of what we need to do with the new content types is already done in XenForo (it has a framework for massive code reuse across multiple content types). Let's take the marketplace_item content type as an example (these are just built in handlers we are using):
  • Want to have some users or some marketplaces (based on permissions) have a moderation queue system
  • We need attachments for this content type
  • Allow this content type to be bookmarked
  • Keep edit history of products being sold
  • Ability for users to (easily) manage email subscriptions (for both marketplaces and items/updates)
  • These items should show up in the "what's new" area
  • We want to be able to do inline moderation of items
  • Keep a log of moderator actions
  • Allow items to show up in user's new feeds
  • Allow likes/reactions on this content type
  • They should have a system where users can report items and moderators can manage those reports
  • The items should be searchable
  • Include items being sold in the sitemap for the site
  • Use the spam cleaner system to mass clean up spam (as well as being able to undo that if needed)
  • Keep stats on items being created, sold, updated, etc.
  • Allow tags on this content type
  • Allow users to be warned about items that are against the rules
1679626001947.webp


Now we are also using XenForo's alert/push notification system/handlers (those are in the item_update content type).

There's all sorts of core things that just make everything so nice... the Service system, template/phrase system, IP address logging (it's trickier than you would think). Even the payment system is abstracted out so we can drop in new types of payments without needing to change anything beyond defining things specific to the new payment type (just for fun, I made a Bitcoin and Monero "payment" option for XenForo). And I'm working on some other more advanced ones (for the marketplace, a split/parallel payment system for example where a buyer can buy multiple things from different merchants in a single transaction [buyer just sees it as paying a single amount, and that payment ends up going to multiple receivers]). The fact that I can just copy those payment handlers to a new site without changing any code and anything that site sells can accept those payment types... it's pretty nice.

Basically for a developer, it's a dream. You can do in hours or days what might normally take weeks or months.

Anyway... I'm on coding break. Sorry it was long winded. :)
 
Been working on a project and I was skimming over what I have done so far, and it reminded me of your post. So let me explain what a developer can do with the XenForo framework (it all revolves around not having to build all these things yourself because they've already built it and abstracted the "things" out so they can be easily/quickly reused for other things). My project is a marketplace... but not in the style of a standalone module like the resource manager. Instead, I now have a new node type (so various different marketplaces can sit within XenForo's node tree). We just saved a ton of time because XenForo's node and permission system is pretty great... don't need to build all that.

All types of marketplaces share certain things (they are something being sold... with a description and a price and other various universal things). It's similar to the XenForo's concept of forums (things like posts are universal, but there's some forum type specific variants... article, question, suggestion forum types).

View attachment 283478

Like an addon can be sold with updates for a certain amount of time (and can be sold multiple times). Where a website marketplace is a set price (or maybe an auction) and can only be sold once. Now right out of the gate, XenForo already has prefixes, custom fields, tags and prompts that can easily be added to new content types (so great, that saves a lot of time since we don't need to build that).

Looking at an addon marketplace node, you get some options specific to addons within the node settings... like are ratings allowed, are reviews allowed, which custom fields to use, etc.

View attachment 283479

So now we have an addon marketplace within the node tree. I'd separated it out and made it only accessible to me because it's a work in-progress, but I could put it anywhere I want... even as a child to a forum. In fact, if you were so inclined, you could have your entire node tree be only marketplaces (without any forums... now we are effectively an eBay.. hah)

View attachment 283480

Internally we have a few new content types... if you want to think about how forums are laid out, you have forums -> threads -> posts, where the marketplaces are marketplaces -> marketplace items -> marketplace item updates (for things like addons).

So guess what? 90% of what we need to do with the new content types is already done in XenForo (it has a framework for massive code reuse across multiple content types). Let's take the marketplace_item content type as an example (these are just built in handlers we are using):
  • Want to have some users or some marketplaces (based on permissions) have a moderation queue system
  • We need attachments for this content type
  • Allow this content type to be bookmarked
  • Keep edit history of products being sold
  • Ability for users to (easily) manage email subscriptions (for both marketplaces and items/updates)
  • These items should show up in the "what's new" area
  • We want to be able to do inline moderation of items
  • Keep a log of moderator actions
  • Allow items to show up in user's new feeds
  • Allow likes/reactions on this content type
  • They should have a system where users can report items and moderators can manage those reports
  • The items should be searchable
  • Include items being sold in the sitemap for the site
  • Use the spam cleaner system to mass clean up spam (as well as being able to undo that if needed)
  • Keep stats on items being created, sold, updated, etc.
  • Allow tags on this content type
  • Allow users to be warned about items that are against the rules
View attachment 283477

Now we are also using XenForo's alert/push notification system/handlers (those are in the item_update content type).

There's all sorts of core things that just make everything so nice... the Service system, template/phrase system, IP address logging (it's trickier than you would think). Even the payment system is abstracted out so we can drop in new types of payments without needing to change anything beyond defining things specific to the new payment type (just for fun, I made a Bitcoin and Monero "payment" option for XenForo). And I'm working on some other more advanced ones (for the marketplace, a split/parallel payment system for example where a buyer can buy multiple things from different merchants in a single transaction [buyer just sees it as paying a single amount, and that payment ends up going to multiple receivers]). The fact that I can just copy those payment handlers to a new site without changing any code and anything that site sells can accept those payment types... it's pretty nice.

Basically for a developer, it's a dream. You can do in hours or days what might normally take weeks or months.

Anyway... I'm on coding break. Sorry it was long winded. :)
Are you planning to sell the addon to the public or is it something more private/suited for your site only?
 
Are you planning to sell the addon to the public or is it something more private/suited for your site only?
Most likely going to be an in-house only addon. The amount of work building it and the complexity of it makes it not well-suited for something to try to support (would probably be too much support time to be worth it). There’s a lot of far more advanced things planned for it that I need it to do and those things are going to be complex from a configuration/support standpoint.
  • A split/chained payment system would allow merchants/sellers to sell things with a marketplace fee automatically taken out.
  • Delayed payments where a payment for something happens but it’s intentionally not settled right away (allows you to set up an escrow system of sorts). Useful for things like making sure a seller transfers a purchased domain to them (the money is there, but not available/settled until the buyer confirms they received it).
  • Ability to optionally purchase things without creating an account.
  • The ability to purchase something and automatically perform post-sale actions without them ever coming to the site (API calls). For me, I want to be able for someone to buy something without ever leaving their WordPress admin, which includes automatically installing what they purchased.
  • Along the same lines, that same system can install updates automatically up until their support/updates end date.
If I were to ever sell it, it would probably be an expensive thing that was sold with the necessary XenForo license included and sold as something like a Shopify replacement with all the stuff needed to sell/ship physical goods, handle inventory, etc. but right now I’m just working on the things I need it for.
 
The statistic I'd like to see is the adoption rate of XenForo 2.3+ versus previous minor releases over the same time period (currently about 12 weeks).

I'm thinking that the adoption rate for 2.3 after 12 weeks is significantly lower then 2.2 after 12 weeks. With the breaking changes that have come along with 2.3 for numerous add-ons this is likely another reason XenForo has decided to move onto 2.4, and 2.5 before publishing another possible breaking changes major release in 3.0. I'm sure they don't want to compound things if they don't have to.
 
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