XenForo - destroyed by vBulletin?

[John]

I also think you will be pleasantly surprised at the number of quality skins and mods that will be available at or very shortly after launch. There are lot's and lot's of things going on behind the scenes here that the average member is unaware of Add to that the fact that IB is a deceptive company at it's foundation so you can't believe a word they say until you can see it with your own eyes...and what have they shown us all in the last year or so?

 

[AmericanForum.com]

XenForo - destroyed by vBulletin? No
Vbulletin - destroyed by XenForo & IPB? Yes

I agree ... lack of focus allowed TWO companies to surpass VB ...

Ladies and Gentlemen ... it's a 2 pony race from here on

 

[Dean]

Ladies and gentlemen, please put your tray tables and seats in the upright position and prepare for lift off.

Broiga: if you are asking/deciding which software to use for you forum, you may want to give it a little while.

 

[Enigma]

My broad point is that they have the resources which Kier understandbly does not have to make big changes.

In terms of the raw quality and awesomeness of a product, I'd take ninja coding skillz over big money any day of the week.

 

[Carlos]

Naw, I think that, given time, XF will blow THEM out of the water. You just wait...

QFT.

 

[John]

In terms of the raw quality and awesomeness of a product, I'd take ninja coding skillz over big money any day of the week.

Exactly, what kind of developers has all of their money bought them in the last year or so? <sarcasm>Top of the line I'd say</sarcasm>

 

[Kim]

It takes a full loaded Super Tanker at full speed at sea, a VERY long time to turn around and head in a different direction... there is also thousands of Tonnes of BAGGAGE on board.

Not an easy task, and the Super Tanker has no chance of keeping ahead of the nimble high powered Frigate looming large on it's horizon

 

[Moses]

vB 4.x IMO was a disaster, I once compared it with Windows Vista, but I think it might now be worse than that.

Windows Me..

 

[Greg]

It's worth remembering that great programmers can be 100x more productive than the average. Good programmers are around 10x more productive than average... bad programmers actually hurt more than they help.

 

[Jethro]

Hi

part of me thinks that vBulletin will respond by releasing a really good upgraded version, which will have a CMS and all other bridges and perhaps coupled with a sale will blow XenForo out of the water.

In related news pigs have taken wing over the frozen tundra of hell. Over to Kathy on the sports desk ....

 

[Tigratrus]

Windows Me..

::wince::
An apt comparison mind you... But still painful

 

[grant sarver]

Remember how threatened GM felt when the Japanese car makers started making inroads (NOT). Big companies usually tell themselves that the upstarts are not a threat and wait WAY too long to react.

 

[anotheralias]

I think that on the internet, "product" and "trend" tend to run hand in hand. A few trends I have seen come and go on the internet:

• MySpace out, Facebook in.
• IE out, Netscape in.
• Netscape out, IE in.
• IE out, Firefox in.
• ezBoard out, IPB in. (Back when they had a free version.)
• Animations out, Flash in. (And there was quite a steep learning curve for that one, not to mention the cost of the software.)
• Yahoo out, Google in.
• AOL out, regular ISPs in.
• AIM out, Twitter in.

People do resist change, and people do tend to stick to brands - in real life. On the internet, they move more as a herd. If all your friends are Twittering, you are going to switch to Twitter. If a board using _____ forum software gets way more traffic, you are going to switch to that forum software.

Basially, brand loyalty is never going to trump your own best self-interests.

 

[bookmark]

I think that on the internet, "product" and "trend" tend to run hand in hand. A few trends I have seen come and go on the internet:

• MySpace out, Facebook in.
• IE out, Netscape in.
• Netscape out, IE in.
• IE out, Firefox in.
• ezBoard out, IPB in. (Back when they had a free version.)
• Animations out, Flash in. (And there was quite a steep learning curve for that one, not to mention the cost of the software.)
• Yahoo out, Google in.
• AOL out, regular ISPs in.
• AIM out, Twitter in.

VBB out,XenForo in.

 

[grant sarver]

A lot depends on where the customers are coming from. We've been assuming that they will be former VB and IPB users. I wonder what percentage of purchasers are admins with free BB software boards looking to move up? VB and IPB are very intimidating and lack the "sex appeal" of XF. Think back to when you made that move. I think XF will do very well with that crowd. And the lack of CMS and Blogs at present shouldn't be a show-stopper for them. Modest price (compared to VB and IPB) might be a closer there.

 

[Anthony Parsons]

I think what you're missing here is that big companies often move a lot slower when they need to make decisions based on changes in the market, when compared to a small(er) one.

That is what's already hindering VB noticeably IMHO. The designers and developers should be making decisions based on what they are reading and gaining from suggestions, not what management says after they get to reading it, then adding or subtracting from the original idea. The bigger a company gets the more it loses touch with the customer.

Ladies and Gentlemen ... it's a 2 pony race from here on

I disagree that VB are out of the race yet... and xenforo isn't even a released product, so its nothing right now until it achieves sale status. IPB are doing it better than VB right now for quality, products, service and price.

Basially, brand loyalty is never going to trump your own best self-interests.

Absolutely... brand means nothing online if others are doing it better for a comparable product. The moment a person can drop one brand and shift to another who is doing it better at the same or lesser price, they have shifted. If the products aren't comparable, then little will change.

Little to nobody using 4.x is going to drop their cms and blog to shift to xenforo forum only. Little to nobody using IPB with their cms, gallery and downloads are going to shift to xenforo forum only.

Whilst I will say xenforo won't make initial waves against the big two due to the above, I will say that when they offer comparable products to the big two... it could really be on at that point.

 

[John]

I think IB is IB's biggest problem right now and for the foreseeable future. I also think if Kier & Mike continue to focus on what they do best and where they want XenForo to go, it will do just fine. One can never lift oneself up by bringing others down.

 

[Floren]

I have to say that I really like XenForo. But, part of me thinks that vBulletin will respond by releasing a really good upgraded version, which will have a CMS and all other bridges and perhaps coupled with a sale will blow XenForo out of the water. Ultimately, I would put it to you that people do not want to take risks, and stick to brand names that they know.

If they truly wanted to do this, IB could of leave untouched the freedom of decision old devs had. Even now, they could hire 3 developer geniuses for a high salary and complete the rewrite in less than 1 year. I think of 3 names quickly: Andrei Zmievski, Sean Coates and Joel Perras. Have you looked at the Lithium framework Joel and Nate Abele wrote (with a lot of input from Sean)? Their code is brilliant, I was very impressed when I assisted to their Confoo presentation.

vBulletin needed those smart people, not high end salary product manages that live in the bureaucrat world from 20 years ago, where .doc and .ppt files (mixed with wasting time meetings) were more important than smart minds being set free to produce amazing results. Why do you think all devs left? I would of left also, if I was in their situation. You cannot achieve miracle code with minimum wage salaries (I talk about the new devs), while "ordering" them what to do.

Not to mention that IB's revenue from vBulletin is less than 10%, compared to their real business... They purchased vBulletin so they can have total control over a software they use into all their forums.

 

[grant sarver]

Of course in the software world one reaction to an innovative upstart that shows some legs is to buy them out and either run with the product or kill it. I'm sure at any point in time Mike and Kier have their price (I do, don't you?).

 

[CBI Web]

Hi

I have to say that I really like XenForo. But, part of me thinks that vBulletin will respond by releasing a really good upgraded version, which will have a CMS and all other bridges and perhaps coupled with a sale will blow XenForo out of the water. Ultimately, I would put it to you that people do not want to take risks, and stick to brand names that they know.

I appreciate that Kier is a bit of a brand name himself and that there are a lot of keen people on this forum. But surely, we are just a very small number of potential customers who will not alone be enough to make the product swim?

Another vB vs XF topic. We really don't have enough of them. My response is, bluntly - who cares? XF is what it is, and will be what it will be. Both softwares have what the other one does not, and vice versa. And XF is not vB reborn, it's not vB MkII, it's not vB The Next Generation. It is XenForo, a super new forum software that will catch on, have its own market, and become as big as the market tells it to be.

Simple stuff, really. Actually, when I'm in the XF forums, I rarely think about vB. It's pretty much like not thinking of my grandma when making love to my wife, you know?