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XenForo - destroyed by vBulletin?

Discussion in 'General XenForo Discussion and Feedback' started by Borgia, Sep 2, 2010.

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  1. Borgia

    Borgia New Member


    I have to say that I really like XenForo. But, part of me thinks that vBulletin will respond by releasing a really good upgraded version, which will have a CMS and all other bridges and perhaps coupled with a sale will blow XenForo out of the water. Ultimately, I would put it to you that people do not want to take risks, and stick to brand names that they know.

    I appreciate that Kier is a bit of a brand name himself and that there are a lot of keen people on this forum. But surely, we are just a very small number of potential customers who will not alone be enough to make the product swim?
    mrGTB and yack like this.
  2. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    Naw, I think that, given time, XF will blow THEM out of the water. You just wait...
    Ryan_, DRE, Xarcell and 5 others like this.
  3. David Thomas

    David Thomas Active Member

    You're looking at this all wrong. Everyone has to start somewhere. Even if it fails, they can chalk it up as one more experience under the belt for security. Just because vB is big now, doesn't mean they'll always be in that position. Facebook started off with just a few exclusive people at one college, when MySpace had millions of users. Now Facebook is the most-visited site in the US, and has over 400-million registered users.

    As for the "releasing something greater" bit, I highly doubt there's much they can do to save face. Also, they already released a [half-assed] CMS, so what are you going on about?

    The only way we'll know whether or not it works is with time.
    Alassien, fos and Photon like this.
  4. Floris

    Floris Guest

    Why would they suddenly change from under-par coding and customer-complaining results to a product matching XenForo quality and "vision"?

    They do what they do, and even if they up their game, (they had that chance since 2007 tbh), it's healthy competition.
    EQnoble, Grover, glorify and 3 others like this.
  5. Borgia

    Borgia New Member

    My broad point is that they have the resources which Kier understandbly does not have to make big changes. I am sure that they are not stupid and realise that this is a threat. Finally, I am not saying that what I said is going to happen, but I do think that it is a possibility.
  6. Forsaken

    Forsaken Well-Known Member

    And pigs will fly :p.

    Honestly, if you looked at their roadmap, they really show no intention of re-doing the CMS, which is currently unusable in its present form.

    The amount of issues with vB4 will not be fixed with just a few more updates; they'd need a whole new rewrite to fix what they've done.

    Which is what they plan to do with vB5, which will probably at latest be out by next summer, meaning people will be expected to pay for a whole new license again :rolleyes:
    fos likes this.
  7. Brandon_R

    Brandon_R Guest

    The CMS has never been usable in the first place so i don't know why they just scrap that s**t and start over. All vB4 sites i go to are slow [not in the sense of getting the site to respond, but actually getting all the javascript, etc to finish load] and that alone has killed plenty of sites. Even if they get their game up to par, i doubt it will bring back the communities they destroyed.

    Even if xenforo NEVER has a blog or CMS as long as it's fast and optimized im sure plenty of people will come to it.

    I know some will argue that not having the cms and blog is the thing actually making the site faster but think of it, how does having a CMS affect the loading of a forum page to a noticeable extent?
    fos likes this.
  8. Onimua

    Onimua Well-Known Member

    Kier and Mike aren't held down by an old system; it's all new here with flexibility built from the ground up and if you've spent a bit of time here you'll find new things popping up weekly.

    Before vBulletin can move fast, it's going to have to get thin first. ;)
  9. The Sandman

    The Sandman Well-Known Member

    The fact that the one time leader would need to respond to an upstart like XF speaks volumes about the current situation.

    Very true - it's not common for a well respected and popular brand to fall from grace. But it does happen.

    Two words - tipping point. Tipping points are "the levels at which the momentum for change becomes unstoppable." I think we're gonna see one soon.
    DRE, Daniel77, anotheralias and 2 others like this.
  10. James

    James Well-Known Member

    Hi Borgia,

    XenForo has the advantage of being built from scratch using the most up-to-date coding and programming methods out there, including CSS3, HTML5, jQuery and (bits of) Zend Framework. This makes XenForo a futuristic piece of software as it is. Things like vBSEO for vBulletin (which people are forking out $150 for?) have been included by default in XenForo which saves people money. Also, this has been built with user-friendliness, expansion and simplicity in mind, whilst also making forums more social than they once were.

    In addition to that, vBulletin was top-of-the-range software up until vBulletin 4 and we must remember that Kier leading the development of vBulletin probably had a major impact on how popular vBulletin came. XenForo has that potential now with Kier and Mike owning XenForo Ltd. as well as developing XenForo.

    If vBulletin release a perfectly good version of vBulletin 4 with perfect CMS and Blog addons along with a bridge to third-party software then that is truly great news for the people that are hoping the vBulletin software turns around. Others, however, have given up on praying that IB will fix the amazing work that Jelsoft did and are now looking for alternatives.

    XenForo has received positive feedback from a wide range of popular forums and with forums like AVForums already promoting that they're switching to it, the publicity will soon rise, word will spread, people will realise ex-vBulletin developers are developing it and I am confident that the majority (if not all) of the doubts will be quenched :)
  11. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Competitive edge really, as one product comes out with new features other products will counter somehow. It comes down to preference, I still use vBulletin and will continue but will try XenForo out as well. In time XenForo new themes and mods will be released so more folks will switch on over I'm sure :).
  12. Forsaken

    Forsaken Well-Known Member

    XenForo doesn't use Zend, just a few bits of it.
    Neutral Singh likes this.
  13. James

    James Well-Known Member

    Ah yes, let me update that :p
  14. dutchbb

    dutchbb Well-Known Member

    I think what you're missing here is that big companies often move a lot slower when they need to make decisions based on changes in the market, when compared to a small(er) one. It's not one or two or three guys who make decisions, but dozens of managers from the top to the floor. On top of that, it's not so obvious that company principles will change quickly. A company that has used the same principles for years, isn't just going to change completely in a few months or even years. Even if some of the lower management wants to change the company's philosophy, they are still faced with the upper management, and if they don't get it, it's not going to happen. Also let's say they all get it, and they completely change the whole method of working, that is still a major task. It will take time to rewrite code the right way, to gain trust back from customers, etc. vB 4.x IMO was a disaster, I once compared it with Windows Vista, but I think it might now be worse than that. It is possible to get the train back on track, but the damage is not small.

    If they can manage it, it will not 'destroy' other companies. vB never destroyed the whole market and never will. They get a piece from the cake like everyone else. It's just a matter of how big that piece will be for them, and each of the other competitors.
    David Thomas likes this.
  15. Erik

    Erik Well-Known Member

    I highly doubt that vBulletin will finally step up their game and develop something better than what XF can do. That time has come and gone. :)
    T.S., Brandon_R, anotheralias and 2 others like this.
  16. AmericanForum.com

    AmericanForum.com Well-Known Member

    Borgia its all about focus ... go to their parent company website and ask yourself ...

    Does it look like they are focused on helping you with your forum ? :)
  17. Floris

    Floris Guest

    Well, if you don't believe in the product, don't buy it. And continue using the product(s) you believe in.
    In the future you can change your mind and convert away from vBulletin to XenForo and level up your community to the next level :)
  18. Kevin

    Kevin Well-Known Member

    If you go with that line of thinking, then the question that begs to be answered is why haven't they tried fixing the problems currently with all of those resources instead of now using the same resources only because momentum is growing for XenForo?

    As anybody who has ever worked on a big project will tell you, when there are problems with the foundation of a project then throwing more bodies at the problem hardly ever helps.
    AmericanForum.com likes this.
  19. Umit

    Umit Active Member

    XenForo - destroyed by vBulletin? No
    Vbulletin - destroyed by XenForo & IPB? Yes
    T.S., kaoticnick, Kim and 6 others like this.
  20. Sador

    Sador Well-Known Member

    Resources and lot's of people working on something doesn't necessarily equals a good product.
    Brandon_R, David Thomas and dutchbb like this.
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