XenForo Add-On Certification

Paid: Permission from the developer.(Because he received the payment)
So,you are going to have a permission/group per developer? But Wait... There's more! Some developers have more than 1 add-on, so now you have multiple permissions/groups for 1 developer to cover each add-on.

Not a very well thought out idea, as I can see a site ending up with thousands of user groups and associated permissions.
 
The main issue is with this thread and I hate to say it but it is the truth, is you have non-programmers trying to come up with non-programmatic solutions to a problem that is at the core...a programmatic problem to be solved, it's like wanting a fresh glass of orange juice and grabbing a cheese grater to do the deed.

So to address some things I have read in the past couple pages that have nothing to do with the actual act of impartially auditing code and setting up the physical system.

Community based quality control:

  • Who vets the vetters, and who is responsible for their decisions?

  • Who running a business would give autonomous authoritative discretion to a open community and be liable for actions taken by them on their behalf?
Trustees:

  • Trust between two parties does not promise in any way that the trusted group will be unbiased towards some developers and weighted towards others and officially sanctioning what is a third party (as far as XF customers position) to vet addon software to achieve a certified logo which is endorsed by the first party would put that 1st party in quite a tight place.

  • Actually auditing code requires more time to do than the programming does itself add to the fact that when you write your own code you have a bit of a mental reference, auditing a large chunk of another persons code coming in cold off the bench with fresh eyes on it just adds time and time = money.

  • There is no other way to run something like an app store (quality control, app qualification etc) other than an actual and formal business because of how much actually has to go into doing something like that. Setting up a walled garden app environment is a massive undertaking and without impartiality there can only be problems to come.


So yeah, unless xf is doing 75k+ a month and has liquid assets to cover time spent on developing the infrastructure for all the proposals mentioned here in this thread and funds to pay actual in house employees to vet code while hopefully sales of said addons can create a return...I just don't see it happening with three in house developers working on a steady development of a stable forum product, a few official addons all while managing a community, support, tickets and more then likely the actual server the site sits on.


The software is still in the 1.x.x series, relatively speaking while not new anymore it is still young, while we are throwing opinions out here mine will end with the thought that this whole concept is not necessarily a bad idea rather it's just not suited for the current times. Probably better to gauge this kind of idea in terms of XF 2.0, XF 3.0 etc...I feel like they have more important things to worry about for now but again this is just my opinion on XF addon certification.
 
It was an idea.
Please introduce your very well thought out idea about a "XenForo Add-On Certification".
Mine is... "Ain't gonna work until more hands are on board to do it".
The only way you will be able to do that is have staff that will do nothing but review code. Then, you will have to code the RM so that it will recognize that the user has purchased the add-on (that way there are no multiple user groups). There are already some solutions out by several developers that once you have paid, you can download the file as long as your support/license is current - and once your support has expired you no longer can.

That would have to be similar to what is done here, with the respective increase in prices to pay for said code compliance checking and the other bookkeeping related odds and ends.

Then, to top it off, you have the added liability that will be assumed since the code is "reviewed and checked". With the litigious society now people will sue for just about anything.
 
Hi Tracy
I think the best way to do something like this lets not over complicate this process. XenForo could make a shadow site on this site we could install add-on's and see how it react's to the core code! Now here is a thought leave the add-on installed on the site because sometimes different add-on react to other add-on's to cause problems with the core code. What I was thinking was simply report to the author that thier add-on's is working with the core code fine! However we could if a problem arises with another add-on we could report a problem to both author's? NOW if an author wants to stay in the looop with this at that point I think an author could be required to make a small dontation?? However this is all speculation and would have to be discussed like we are doing right now this is VERY good that this is happing now!! After all the bottom line is to keep XenForo a top sofeware.... There is a reason the site Digital Point dumped vBulletin and went with XenForo and I have used vBulletin compaired to XenForo vBulletin is not worth the money!!!!

Vinny
 
That suggestion is totally unworkable and provides no level of confidence in the code at all.

Who's going to install them?
How many are going to be installed at once?
All several thousand of them?

There are many add-ons in the RM here which work perfectly fine with the core, but that doesn't mean I would ever install them on my forum as the code is simply not good enough.
 
That suggestion is totally unworkable and provides no level of confidence in the code at all.

Who's going to install them?
How many are going to be installed at once?
All several thousand of them?

There are many add-ons in the RM here which work perfectly fine with the core, but that doesn't mean I would ever install them on my forum as the code is simply not good enough.
In addition to this, simply installing an add-on that doesn't immediately break anything doesn't mean that it's working perfectly fine with the core. As can be seen so many times with add-ons, issues sometimes aren't noticed until days/weeks/months later. So how long would you have to wait before declaring an add-on to be classed as "fine"?!

As has been said already, this suggestion is simply unworkable.
 
Hi Brogan & Martok
Martok it was a thought not reality however I was taught the most stipid idea is the one not talked about! This is a discussion thats all... Brogan well point, touche Brogan however we have to start somewhere I never said go back and install every add-on you are correct that would take FOREVER!! As far as a site well XenForo does have the abbility to bring up a shaddow site this way if something catastrophic happened take the site down them reinstall it?? As far as who would run this well REMEMBER just a thought to keep the cost of the project down take one Developer, Moderator, and maybe 5 just plain users to volunteer for the project. This way XenForo could get an ojective point of view not only on code. You could get an oppion per the user prospective on ease of use etc..... Guys RATHER then shoot everthing down think about it remember this is a discussion thats all who knows XenForo could benefit from this discussion.... Who Knows....... (y)

Vinny
 
I see the value in this idea, but agree with most of the people above in that it's not at all practical (and won't be for the foreseeable future).

There does need to be a better way to rate and filter through addons in the RM though. @Bob has an addon called Showcase which does reviews a LOT better than RM does:

http://xenaddons.com/showcase/crows-reef.25/reviews

Adding some additional review fields like "Branding Appearance", "Compatibility with Other Addons" and "Callbacks and Licensing" (or something along those lines) would make addon reviews here actually MEAN something. Right now the ratings are arbitrary and all-encompassing; they need to be fleshed out more and allow people to REALLY review something.
 
Hi Brentnauer
At this time you may be correct about the practicality of this situation. But what you all have to remember is this is like a pot of boiling water, some idea's will boil off some will spill on the stove and some will stay in the pot. If we keep at it this situation will have a viable conclusion. Thats it my head hurts right now o_O

Vinny
 
The biggest issue, beyond people, is the fact that while an add on may work standalone, the 2nd any other is introduced, it may break. How do you vet that against every other mod out there? It's an impossible task.

Would a requirement be that all mod's php code be namespaced to the mod name? If so, then you up the php requirements above (5.3) what XF is currently required (5.2.11)

http://php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.basics.php

https://xenforo.com/purchase/
XenForo System Requirements
  • PHP: 5.2.11+


that still won't solve DB table name collisions.
or possibly a folder name of the same which overwrites a datawriter, etc.
 
I don't see how a review system could work. What happens if a review is given saying some code is good and then later on it breaks something? What happens when a developer realease an update, does everyone have to wait around while it is reviewed?

The best you can do is a reputation system for developers themselves, which sort of exists, but not in adequate way

That is something that I was going to bring up. If 15 updates are released in one day. It could take a week or more to go through all of those. Then you have a back log of all the updates released during that week. If one small issue is found and fixed, is that update put back to the front of the line or does it go to the back?

That is a time consuming task. It would require paid staff. Who is going to pay for it? The end user will have to pay for it in the end.

@VinnySx You mention having one xF developer on the team. They don't have a big enough staff to put someone on that. That hurts xF development. And it ties them up dealing with every little issue that comes up. If they say it is ok, people will complain to them rather then the developer themselves in most cases.

This is something they have said many times that they don't want a part of, with good reason.

If your really concerned. What you need to do is hire someone that can do the testing for you. That way you know everything is good and works with what you are using. But you would have to hire them again anytime you want to use updates. If you have other forum owners interested in the same add-ons then maybe the group could hire someone to test the selected add-ons.

James
 
Hi Martok
I think their are enough of us that could do this would you? I have used I lot of different software packages in my time, such as vBulletin let me tell you I think XenForo blows them out of the water hands down!! The proof of that is do you know a site called Digital Point they SCRAPED vBulletin for XenForo, vBulletin's customer servers "well hope this does not get me kicked off here" vBulletin's customers server sucks they are so arrogant and even before they will talk to you better have a credit card handy!! Here you can not only get help from other users the developers themselves will help and for that I don't fore see my ever leaving XenForo. XenForo PLEASE don't change in business TODAY its Customer Service will make or break a company like a toothpick and so far you guys are top!!! Ya I think their are users that would gladly help in something like this......

Vinny

If they took on what you are suggesting then customer service quality would drop. They would be dealing with too many issues related to other peoples work.

I think this idea is something that would need a good size staff to handle. That requires money and a good amount of it.

You talk about giving good service. Well right now that is on every developer. If this set up put in place then you are going to have people complaining to xF because they didn't approve something quick enough or that they won't do one ahead of the other. It will cause frustration for developers as well because they can't get updates out as fast.

Another issue is that some might find the process is too much to deal with and not develop for xF at all.

I still believe it is best to just hire someone yourself.

James
 
Why not create a certification program for xF developers?

Rather than trying to deal with each add-on, create a program with 'course' material that a developer completes to become officially certified.

Developers completing the program get a badge or something and the resource manager can have a filter to only show add-ons created by certified developers.

Put a cost to the certification course to pay for the set-up of the program and create value-add perks in addition to just being certified.
 
That still wouldn't provide any guarantee that the code conforms to any set of requirements.
 
This thread has already established that a code review system is a no go for a variety of reasons.

So if you step back and look at how to improve things for both users and xF as a company, a certification program could help. What I usually take from threads like this one (that tend to pop up a couple of times a year) is that non-developer customers are looking for a better way to find trust in the add-ons they download / purchase. Additionally, there appears to be a bit of a roadblock for a new developer on the scene to gain trust / exposure in comparison to an add-on developer that has been here from the get-go.

Of course, all of this discussion is for naught if xF isn't interested in improving things and is quite happy with the status quo.
 
A certificate would be as much use as the current ratings system, as no qualified person will have checked the code.

All it demonstrates is that the developer passed a basic course, not that their actual code complies with any set of rules or standards.
 
OK in the US we have UL Listed and any product that is UL rated you know will work... Now is it required no BUT when your company gets UL Listed it says something about the company. This is just a concept but how about certifying devoloper.. Now again there are some very talented devolopers on this site and I am not one of them they are a bread all there own, but for the lay person the difference between an Add-On and a Certified XenForo Add-On says waves. I would think this may and I say MAY be a viable option so this means don't certify the add-on certify the developer. I will be the first I don't mind spending so money for a good product.....

Thoughts
Vinny
 
A certificate would be as much use as the current ratings system, as no qualified person will have checked the code.

All it demonstrates is that the developer passed a basic course, not that their actual code complies with any set of rules or standards.

It's another layer of added trust.

And it shouldn't be a basic course, it should have concepts and teachings of best practices in developing on the xF platform.

You know why I purchased your CTA Featured Threads add-on? Because the perception was that you were getting help (in the way of pointers) from xF developers. I trusted your work differently that the alternative solutions out there.

I have no idea if your code is good or not, but because of your association (implied, nothing that you personally have projected) here, I assume that you are 'on the right track'.

A certification program can also open new revenue streams for xF and attract a developers who wouldn't necessarily be interested in programming for this platform.
 
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