XF 2.4 XenForo 2.4 status and what's new under the hood?

Where are we?​

TL;DR: We're working hard to release XenForo 2.4 ASAP, but it's taking longer than expected due to scope changes and strategic decisions to wait for certain upstream developments that will benefit the long-term roadmap. Here's an analogy to explain why:

Software development is like planning a cross-country expedition with multiple destinations.

When you set out for version 2.4, you're not just driving to the next town over. You're charting a course through unknown territory with several strategic stops planned along the way - each representing a major milestone or feature release.

But the challenge is the landscape keeps changing along the journey.

• New roads open up (better technologies emerge)
• Bridges get washed out (dependencies break or become obsolete)
• You discover scenic routes that would benefit all future travellers (opportunities for architectural improvements)
• Weather conditions shift (market demands or user needs evolve)
• Your vehicle needs unexpected maintenance (technical debt must be addressed)

You can't just focus on reaching the immediate next stop. You must consider how each decision affects the entire journey ahead. Taking a shortcut to reach 2.4 faster might leave you stranded when trying to reach 3.0, 4.0 or even 5.0.

This is why scope changes occur: experienced developers are constantly recalibrating the route based on new information, ensuring the expedition can successfully reach not just the next destination, but all the strategic waypoints that follow.

The delays aren't detours, rather they're course corrections that keep the long-term journey viable.

To be slightly less cryptic, these are some of the specific challenges we have faced along the way:

A new Tiptap version is coming​

When we announced that Tiptap is coming to XenForo 2.4 it was 95% complete, and we then took a bit of a pause to work on other projects, which we have talked about since and will be discussing in this thread. Since then, Tiptap have announced Tiptap V3 which is currently in beta. Given how core the editor is to the forum experience, it makes a lot of sense to ship XenForo 2.4 with Tiptap V3 rather than Tiptap V2 as originally planned. While the changes involved are not too extensive, we also don't want to ship 2.4 with a dependency that is still in beta and subject to change. While we are not planning to wait for Tiptap V3 to be stable, necessarily, we do at least want to give it a little bit more time so we have a higher degree of confidence that we're shipping a stable editing experience.

We started talking about a rewrite (again)​

While this is not currently the direction we've decided to go in, it's responsible for us to at least consider all routes available to us to help us reach our destination.

After nearly 8 years since the release of XenForo 2.0, many of the technologies we use are showing their age, many of the decisions we made have started to slow us down more than we would like, and as a framework, XenForo becomes a less productive framework to work with. The solution to this problem can be to start from scratch, but we have ultimately decided that this is not something we need to do at this stage.

Instead, over the next few versions, including 2.4, we will be attempting to make iterative architectural changes to the framework so that we all have greater tools at our disposal to improve both the developer and user experience, particularly focusing on the implementation of developer tools and features that have become commonplace in other frameworks, such as Laravel.

Some of our best features are simply not finished​

There are one or two features that we see requested consistently from customers in our community forums and feedback channels, and we're excited to confirm they are coming in 2.4! However, it serves no one well if we release such highly-anticipated features before they are ready and before they have the usual level of quality, polish, and extensibility you would expect from a XenForo release. We'd rather take the extra time to get them right than rush them out and disappoint users with a subpar implementation that requires immediate patches or lacks the flexibility for customisation. We'll be sharing exciting details about what these features are and how they work in the coming weeks, so stay tuned!

We can't keep up!​

I just counted and there are about 15 features that have been merged or are pending to be merged into XF 2.4 that we haven't announced yet. Some of these are smaller and aren't worthy of a dedicated HYS of their own (so they'll probably be rolled into a "miscellaneous" HYS or two), and some of these are going to be mentioned below, but while we have been "cooking" (as the kids say these days) it has meant that things like code reviews, and writing HYS posts hasn't been easy to balance. There is also potentially more stuff coming from generous contributions from esteemed developers such as @Xon and @digitalpoint, assuming we have time to implement (otherwise they will wait for... a future version).


With all of that now being said, while 2.4 is taking longer than we wanted, we have been busy and we are very much nearing the end of development.

And, while disappointing (to all of us) it is important to maintain perspective. XenForo 2.2 was released in September 2020. XenForo 2.3 was released nearly four years later. XenForo 2.4 is not 3 more years away.

But, you clicked this to find out what's new, right? So let's go.

 

[tajhay]

So does this mean the future release they speak of is 2 years away?

probably just like their 'weeks' means years.

 

[Wing]

 

[RobinHood]

In the meantime, TipTap V3 stable has been released, followed by 9 other releases.

13 releases now.

Tip tap is already on V3.3, a little longer and TipTap 3.4 will be out before XF 2.4!

Maybe every time a new TipTap release comes out it resets the launch of XF. The XF team have their finger above the launch button, but then they get a ping about a new version of TipTap and they're like "dangit! got to update tip tap again now, we'll have to postpone again!"

 

[PhineasD]

XF is currently at a development level far behind its competitors. If this continues for a few more years, I wouldn't be surprised if it follows the same path Nokia did in its day, who went from being pioneers to stagnating and disappear.

 

[Wildcat Media]

I would imagine they have lost very little business. Yes there are many people here who would prefer more frequent updates but maybe not a huge consensus on why, apart from the opinion that they want more frequent updates.

I'm not concerned about when 2.4 comes along--there is nothing our members are wanting in their forum experience, so other than keeping up with end-of-life support, we (the staff) are not motivated to upgrade in any kind of rush. If anything, it's creating a lot more work for me with each upgrade so...yeah, I'd just rather not upgrade if I don't have to.

In reality, I have members who posted on an old fork of wwwboard, the old text-based forum, from 1997, and they still post the same way they did back then, and just about all of them have asked for nothing. (A few "power users" like myself appreciate the new features and many add-ons I've employed, but we're a tiny fraction of the membership.)

And yeah...we have a vocal few dozen who are clamoring for updates here in the XF forums, but what about the thousands of other customers who don't post in the forum? We here are a small percentage of overall customers, and this is true of just about anything. Look at car complaints. The most vocal are the ones who have problems. The other 99.5% of owners don't have problems.

ZERO of my forum members care that Xenforo has not released version 2.4

Same with any of the forums I manage. People log in, post, reply, shenanigans ensue, deals are made, and life goes on. They don't care that the forum isn't running on the latest and greatest version. Things work, members are happy. 2.4 won't change that. 2.4 will create a lot more work for me, for minor things that 99% of the membership doesn't care about.

With 2.4, it comes when it comes. Or like my avatar says.

 

[Wildcat Media]

Maybe every time a new TipTap release comes out it resets the launch of XF. The XF team have their finger above the launch button, but then they get a ping about a new version of TipTap and they're like "dangit! got to update tip tap again now, we'll have to postpone again!"

I doubt the changes are anything major XF devs would have to accommodate at length, as it's not a major version upgrade. Probably just minor tweaks to the XF side at most.

But yeah, I get what you're saying. I am used to playing Whack-a-Mole with other things in life. And back in my development days, that was always a thing I had to deal with!

 

[Dixie McCall]

Keep up the good work !

 

[Wanji]

[...]

And yeah...we have a vocal few dozen who are clamoring for updates here in the XF forums, but what about the thousands of other customers who don't post in the forum? We here are a small percentage of overall customers, and this is true of just about anything. Look at car complaints. The most vocal are the ones who have problems. The other 99.5% of owners don't have problems.

[...]

[...]

But this isn't a reason to delay software development. If you're happy with the old version, that's your choice. I'm still using version 2.3.4, but if a newer version becomes available, I'll probably renew my license soon.

 

[Wing]

I'm not concerned about when 2.4 comes along--there is nothing our members are wanting in their forum experience, so other than keeping up with end-of-life support, we (the staff) are not motivated to upgrade in any kind of rush. If anything, it's creating a lot more work for me with each upgrade so...yeah, I'd just rather not upgrade if I don't have to.

In reality, I have members who posted on an old fork of wwwboard, the old text-based forum, from 1997, and they still post the same way they did back then, and just about all of them have asked for nothing. (A few "power users" like myself appreciate the new features and many add-ons I've employed, but we're a tiny fraction of the membership.)

And yeah...we have a vocal few dozen who are clamoring for updates here in the XF forums, but what about the thousands of other customers who don't post in the forum? We here are a small percentage of overall customers, and this is true of just about anything. Look at car complaints. The most vocal are the ones who have problems. The other 99.5% of owners don't have problems.



Same with any of the forums I manage. People log in, post, reply, shenanigans ensue, deals are made, and life goes on. They don't care that the forum isn't running on the latest and greatest version. Things work, members are happy. 2.4 won't change that. 2.4 will create a lot more work for me, for minor things that 99% of the membership doesn't care about.

With 2.4, it comes when it comes. Or like my avatar says.

That’s great that you’re content with the current version - as are tons of others. With that said, that’s not the issue here. The issue is that lack of major updates isn’t going to keep the Xenforo brand competitive aka paying the overhead bills overtime. Especially when it comes to keeping a healthy flow of new customers inbound into the brand.

Some of us have been saying this for years now.

 

[QuickSixSurfer]

But this isn't a reason to delay software development. If you're happy with the old version, that's your choice. I'm still using version 2.3.4, but if a newer version becomes available, I'll probably renew my license soon.

^ THIS. A newer version means renewing licenses = $ for Xenforo.
Software companies, etc. need to issue new versions to keep people upgrading for the safety, security and feature enhancements. Without a good cash flow, the business dynamics change quickly.

 

[Wanji]

^ THIS. A newer version means renewing licenses = $ for Xenforo.
[...]

Not always.

 

[JamesBrown]

Some of us have been saying this for years now.

While others have been busy building their communities.

 

[woody]

While others have been busy building their communities.

Content is king.

 

[Jimsef]

I don’t understand this argument at all. We can comment on lack of progress at the same time as building communities, it’s not one or the other.

I was using phpbb for years and it stagnated to the point of frustration. Going by this argument I should not have been bothered by that and just “built my community”. Honestly, that’s what I did, until I finally had enough and left.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Content is king.

Structured Content is king.

The issue is Xenforo lacks meaningful information structures.

 

[Wing]

While others have been busy building their communities.

This has nothing to do with the point we are making. Its great that us loyalists will continue building our communities, and even stick to a certain version of XF for the forseeable future. The point is, more updates overtime are required to bring in more $ for the Xenforo brand.

Not sure why you continue to be confused with this tbh.

 

[nodle]

Content is king.

It still is, but now AI will steal your content and redirect to their website for what was once your content, to be their new content, to be king.

 

[Davyc]

There's a lot of noise from some vocal users that appear to think that the owners/developers of XF haven't a clue about business, even though the product has been around for 15 years. A lot of noise for 'more' updates, but no sense of what they expect from 'more' updates. If you want updates then you have to state what it is you expect in an update and then consider whether it will be of benefit to you and your members.

If any took the time to read the first post by Chris, it states that this update is 'taking longer than expected due to scope changes and strategic decisions to wait for certain upstream developments that will benefit the long-term roadmap' with a detailed explanation as to why.

Then there is noise being made that anyone new coming to the site and seeing all the moaning and whining in posts like this, will put them off buying - those of you going on about this are adding fuel to the fire. Instead of whinging, start bigging the software up as to why it is a fantastic piece of kit that has evolved and is still evolving into something better with each update.

Keeping on berating the developers for not speeding things up won't make anything happen any sooner - as has been pointed out numerous times, future updates will be ready when they're ready and there is no one better placed than the developers to determine when it's ready.

You would all be more inclined to moan and whine if an update was released, and it was so full of bugs that nearly all your add-ons would no longer work, or in a worst case scenario crashed your sites. Act in haste, repent in leisure.

So, instead of simply saying 'more updates' what is it that you want in an update? If you have suggestions, there is a place for them on this site.

 

[mjda]

This has nothing to do with the point we are making. Its great that us loyalists will continue building our communities, and even stick to a certain version of XF for the forseeable future. The point is, more updates overtime are required to bring in more $ for the Xenforo brand.

Not sure why you continue to be confused with this tbh.

Why are you concerned with how much money XF makes? As long as they continue to work what difference should it make to any of us how much money they're bringing in?

They also now have, what I'd guess to be, a little more steady income with the cloud. Folks on the cloud can't just not pay until they see something worth paying for.

I assume the company is doing just fine considering nobody has been laid off and everyone is still just working away. If they wanted more money I'm sure they could think of ways to get that. Pushing out releases before they're actually ready would be a great way to get folks to update their licenses sooner. Thank goodness for all of us they're doing well enough that they can maintain their goal of only releasing each version when it's ready™.

 

[JamesBrown]

The point is, more updates overtime are required to bring in more $ for the Xenforo brand.

I let XF worry about their brand. Coming here to moan at the staff, how much do you think that helps? Letting them know how pissed or concerned you are, does that spur them on to better things? I'd rather talk about what a great product it actually is.

Would I like to see new shiny things and quicker? Of course, but It is what it is, and we are where we are. Let them get on with their business while we crack on with ours