XF 2.4 XenForo 2.4 status and what's new under the hood?

Where are we?​

TL;DR: We're working hard to release XenForo 2.4 ASAP, but it's taking longer than expected due to scope changes and strategic decisions to wait for certain upstream developments that will benefit the long-term roadmap. Here's an analogy to explain why:

Software development is like planning a cross-country expedition with multiple destinations.

When you set out for version 2.4, you're not just driving to the next town over. You're charting a course through unknown territory with several strategic stops planned along the way - each representing a major milestone or feature release.

But the challenge is the landscape keeps changing along the journey.

• New roads open up (better technologies emerge)
• Bridges get washed out (dependencies break or become obsolete)
• You discover scenic routes that would benefit all future travellers (opportunities for architectural improvements)
• Weather conditions shift (market demands or user needs evolve)
• Your vehicle needs unexpected maintenance (technical debt must be addressed)

You can't just focus on reaching the immediate next stop. You must consider how each decision affects the entire journey ahead. Taking a shortcut to reach 2.4 faster might leave you stranded when trying to reach 3.0, 4.0 or even 5.0.

This is why scope changes occur: experienced developers are constantly recalibrating the route based on new information, ensuring the expedition can successfully reach not just the next destination, but all the strategic waypoints that follow.

The delays aren't detours, rather they're course corrections that keep the long-term journey viable.

To be slightly less cryptic, these are some of the specific challenges we have faced along the way:

A new Tiptap version is coming​

When we announced that Tiptap is coming to XenForo 2.4 it was 95% complete, and we then took a bit of a pause to work on other projects, which we have talked about since and will be discussing in this thread. Since then, Tiptap have announced Tiptap V3 which is currently in beta. Given how core the editor is to the forum experience, it makes a lot of sense to ship XenForo 2.4 with Tiptap V3 rather than Tiptap V2 as originally planned. While the changes involved are not too extensive, we also don't want to ship 2.4 with a dependency that is still in beta and subject to change. While we are not planning to wait for Tiptap V3 to be stable, necessarily, we do at least want to give it a little bit more time so we have a higher degree of confidence that we're shipping a stable editing experience.

We started talking about a rewrite (again)​

While this is not currently the direction we've decided to go in, it's responsible for us to at least consider all routes available to us to help us reach our destination.

After nearly 8 years since the release of XenForo 2.0, many of the technologies we use are showing their age, many of the decisions we made have started to slow us down more than we would like, and as a framework, XenForo becomes a less productive framework to work with. The solution to this problem can be to start from scratch, but we have ultimately decided that this is not something we need to do at this stage.

Instead, over the next few versions, including 2.4, we will be attempting to make iterative architectural changes to the framework so that we all have greater tools at our disposal to improve both the developer and user experience, particularly focusing on the implementation of developer tools and features that have become commonplace in other frameworks, such as Laravel.

Some of our best features are simply not finished​

There are one or two features that we see requested consistently from customers in our community forums and feedback channels, and we're excited to confirm they are coming in 2.4! However, it serves no one well if we release such highly-anticipated features before they are ready and before they have the usual level of quality, polish, and extensibility you would expect from a XenForo release. We'd rather take the extra time to get them right than rush them out and disappoint users with a subpar implementation that requires immediate patches or lacks the flexibility for customisation. We'll be sharing exciting details about what these features are and how they work in the coming weeks, so stay tuned!

We can't keep up!​

I just counted and there are about 15 features that have been merged or are pending to be merged into XF 2.4 that we haven't announced yet. Some of these are smaller and aren't worthy of a dedicated HYS of their own (so they'll probably be rolled into a "miscellaneous" HYS or two), and some of these are going to be mentioned below, but while we have been "cooking" (as the kids say these days) it has meant that things like code reviews, and writing HYS posts hasn't been easy to balance. There is also potentially more stuff coming from generous contributions from esteemed developers such as @Xon and @digitalpoint, assuming we have time to implement (otherwise they will wait for... a future version).


With all of that now being said, while 2.4 is taking longer than we wanted, we have been busy and we are very much nearing the end of development.

And, while disappointing (to all of us) it is important to maintain perspective. XenForo 2.2 was released in September 2020. XenForo 2.3 was released nearly four years later. XenForo 2.4 is not 3 more years away.

But, you clicked this to find out what's new, right? So let's go.

 

[duderuud]

@Davyc I think you are missing the point. The point is, posted release dates are never met and the communication about why is severely lacking.

 

[Davyc]

@Davyc I think you are missing the point. The point is, posted release dates are never met and the communication about why is severely lacking.

I know very well what the point is, and I don't care what the moaners or whiners spit out with venom, I'm not here to debate. I said what I had to say, but don't assume I have missed the point as I've been around here long enough to get the point, be assured that I do.

 

[🔥Iggy🔥]

why are they wearing hoods anyway i think most ppls just wanted better transparency and a rough timeline to plan developments....now we have a second thread thats done the same thing as the first one

 

[Bionic Rooster]

 

[Walter]

taking longer than expected

Its probably not about the fact, that a single release is taking longer than expected, its about that this is quite the norm with Xenforo.

And calling frustrated customers of a company "moaners or whiners" is ridiculous.

 

[Miri]

There's a lot of noise from some vocal users that appear to think that the owners/developers of XF haven't a clue about business, even though the product has been around for 15 years.

 

[🔥Iggy🔥]

for me its about the fact that forum software got swallowed by social media years ago and more or less all of the platforms have been "going forward" but while basic functionality and UX lacked sorely.....ok fix it with custom work then it can be just how we want? oh well, the editor is one base of the problem and thats not something to easily just hack in a replacer etc....and you dont want to do extensive custom work right before a major upgrade.....which is coming.....any day now.......for 6 months......

i know its not like technology can ever just hit a sweet spot and freeze itself in time, there will be new "beneficial" developments till forever, but this is sort of a long time coming and whats building basically toward what i think of as a "basic foundation" so forum software can even make sense again....

2.4 wont fix it, things like the gallery being isolated on an island and needing to open a second tab etc should have went out of style a long time ago....at least if the editor works and isnt buggy the rest can be custom done and it wont feel like swimming upstream to use a forum software, for the first time in history.

 

[Wing]

Why are you concerned with how much money XF makes? As long as they continue to work what difference should it make to any of us how much money they're bringing in?

Because I want XF to remain competitive and afloat for years to come...
Not everyone is on XF Cloud, so keeping license renewals coming in is important right?

Its probably not about the fact, that a single release is taking longer than expected, its about that this is quite the norm with Xenforo.

And calling frustrated customers of a company "moaners or whiners" is ridiculous.

This guy gets it.

 

[Rusty Snippets]

Yeah, I don't know, guys. Is this project dead?!

 

[mjda]

Because I want XF to remain competitive and afloat for years to come...
Not everyone is on XF Cloud, so keeping license renewals coming in is important right?

Yeah, I doubt there are any customers who don't want XF to remain competitive and afloat for years to come.

Assuming you're asking if it's important to XF that renewals are coming, I can't answer that. I'm not a shareholder so I, personally, couldn't care less about how many folks are renewing their licenses, or when. It doesn't affect me whatsoever. I'll say again, and this is just my assumption, if simply getting people to renew was the most important thing to the XF devs, I'm sure they know of several ways they could accomplish that. Again, I say we're lucky that XF doesn't have that mindset. They want to produce a stable, as bug free as possible, software and that is something they do a pretty damn good job at, for the most part...and evidently they're making plenty of money doing it because, well, they're still doing it.

The only thing important to me is doing what's best for my sites. Right now that means sticking with XF, even with the slow release schedule and the lack of communication. Sure, I'd love to see that changed, but if it doesn't that's fine, for now, too. If anything does change, such that XF is no longer what I feel is best for my community, I'll move on to something else. My sites have moved from phpBB, to vBulletin, to XenForo and, so far, none of my communities have collapsed because of what software I'm running them on. If I'm forced to change again, my sites will still survive. Luckily for me I don't rely on the software developers to keep my sites relevant in my niche.

 

[Wing]

Yeah, I doubt there are any customers who don't want XF to remain competitive and afloat for years to come.

Assuming you're asking if it's important to XF that renewals are coming, I can't answer that. I'm not a shareholder so I, personally, couldn't care less about how many folks are renewing their licenses, or when. It doesn't affect me whatsoever. I'll say again, and this is just my assumption, if simply getting people to renew was the most important thing to the XF devs, I'm sure they know of several ways they could accomplish that. Again, I say we're lucky that XF doesn't have that mindset. They want to produce a stable, as bug free as possible, software and that is something they do a pretty damn good job at, for the most part...and evidently they're making plenty of money doing it because, well, they're still doing it.

The only thing important to me is doing what's best for my sites. Right now that means sticking with XF, even with the slow release schedule and the lack of communication. Sure, I'd love to see that changed, but if it doesn't that's fine, for now, too. If anything does change, such that XF is no longer what I feel is best for my community, I'll move on to something else. My sites have moved from phpBB, to vBulletin, to XenForo and, so far, none of my communities have collapsed because of what software I'm running them on. If I'm forced to change again, my sites will still survive. Luckily for me I don't rely on the software developers to keep my sites relevant in my niche.

But that's the thing, renewals are just one piece of the puzzle to remain competitive for the next generation. Another large piece is to ensure a flow of new users continue to pour into the XF ecosystem rather than the other platforms out there. Not just now, but for years to come. at the current rate, I among others are just not seeing it anylonger. All of us old-heads with XF versions from the past, need to realize that the potential younger generation customers also are important to keep business steady.

I would rather stay loyal to XF for the next 10 years+, this has always been my home! So I want the brand to succeed compared to the competitors, instead of lose market share. You are right, we do not actually know the numbers tho.

 

[mjda]

Another large piece is to ensure a flow of new users continue to pour into the XF ecosystem rather than the other platforms out there.

But why is that a problem you're focused in on? There's nothing you can do about that, unless you want to start buying up thousands of licenses just so you can keep them all renewed to ensure a steady annual income for XF.

And why are you so argumentative about it? You think there are customers here who actually don't want XF to continue to be successful, and continue to develop? I've seen different people say they prefer the slow release schedule, and those who prefer a quick release schedule. That's all personal preference and there's no way for XF to satisfy everyone in that regard. One thing I haven't seen on these forums, though, is anyone saying they want to see XF development come to a complete stop, but you're arguing like there are those kind of people here. We all want to see XF continue forward. We just don't, and will never, agree on the rate. Even if we did all agree on the rate we wanted to see development move at, though, there's still not a thing we can do about it. That's all up to the devs...and that's why, regardless of what we might say or think, more waiting is required™.

 

[Wing]

But why is that a problem you're focused in on? There's nothing you can do about that, unless you want to start buying up thousands of licenses just so you can keep them all renewed to ensure a steady annual income for XF.

Because quite simply, I don't want to keep moving around to other forum software like you said you would in the future if need be. I dont want XF to fail over the next generation. Sorry that I am passionate about that It is okay for customers to begin voicing out concerns due to the recent track records.

 

[cdub]

This conversation is going nowhere. Please stop. What's the point? It's ready when it's ready. And when it's ready you'll have a whole new bunch of things to complain about. Look forward to that.

 

[Paul B]

It is okay for customers to begin voicing out concerns due to the recent track records.

I think what some members are trying to convey is this ...

 

[Wing]

I think what some members are trying to convey is this ...

View attachment 326271

Sorry that I have been following this thread closely here. I was not aware this is not allowed with clientele, nor is the passion or feedback allowed to be expressed. My apologies.

 

[Paul B]

No need to apologise to me - it makes zero difference to my life how much time you spend posting on XF threads.

 

[Wing]

No need to apologise to me - it makes zero difference to my life how much time you spend posting on XF threads.

Yet you are screenshotting paying customers post history of feedback and posting them within this thread. How is this professional of you as a Xenforo staff member? I mean, come on.

This is the type of stuff that people are talking about over the last couple years.

 

[Paul B]

You need to find a new hobby.

 

[mjda]

I don't want to keep moving around to other forum software like you said you would in the future if need be. I dont want XF to fail over the next generation. Sorry that I am passionate about that It is okay for customers to begin voicing out concerns due to the recent track records.

So you just skip the part where I said that it's most likely that nobody else, myself included, wants to do that either? I'm not arguing with you about your desire to see XF be successful. I want them to continue to be successful too, as do all of the rest of the customers, I'm sure.

I have concerns too, but what good does voicing those concerns do at this point? You think the devs still aren't aware that there's a percentage of customers who want 2.4 quicker, or who want more/better transparency and communication? If any of the devs, or really any folks who frequent this site at all, claim they weren't aware of that fact...then, unfortunately, they probably have some form of dementia.

So, yeah, my plan is to just keep on hammering away on my sites and working to find ways to promote those to new members. I'll treat the software like any other feature of my site. What's good, and engaging, and interesting today, may not be tomorrow. Sometimes you just gotta cut something loose. My plan may not be the best plan, and it certainly won't be for everyone. You're clearly not a fan of my plan, and that's fine. You've got your own plan...evidently that plan is to argue the XF devs into submission...I hope your persistence pays off, cause there are a few things in 2.4 I'm looking forward to.