XF 2.4 XenForo 2.4 status and what's new under the hood?

Where are we?​

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TL;DR: We're working hard to release XenForo 2.4 ASAP, but it's taking longer than expected due to scope changes and strategic decisions to wait for certain upstream developments that will benefit the long-term roadmap. Here's an analogy to explain why:

Software development is like planning a cross-country expedition with multiple destinations.

When you set out for version 2.4, you're not just driving to the next town over. You're charting a course through unknown territory with several strategic stops planned along the way - each representing a major milestone or feature release.

But the challenge is the landscape keeps changing along the journey.
  • New roads open up (better technologies emerge)
  • Bridges get washed out (dependencies break or become obsolete)
  • You discover scenic routes that would benefit all future travellers (opportunities for architectural improvements)
  • Weather conditions shift (market demands or user needs evolve)
  • Your vehicle needs unexpected maintenance (technical debt must be addressed)
You can't just focus on reaching the immediate next stop. You must consider how each decision affects the entire journey ahead. Taking a shortcut to reach 2.4 faster might leave you stranded when trying to reach 3.0, 4.0 or even 5.0.

This is why scope changes occur: experienced developers are constantly recalibrating the route based on new information, ensuring the expedition can successfully reach not just the next destination, but all the strategic waypoints that follow.

The delays aren't detours, rather they're course corrections that keep the long-term journey viable.

To be slightly less cryptic, these are some of the specific challenges we have faced along the way:

A new Tiptap version is coming​

When we announced that Tiptap is coming to XenForo 2.4 it was 95% complete, and we then took a bit of a pause to work on other projects, which we have talked about since and will be discussing in this thread. Since then, Tiptap have announced Tiptap V3 which is currently in beta. Given how core the editor is to the forum experience, it makes a lot of sense to ship XenForo 2.4 with Tiptap V3 rather than Tiptap V2 as originally planned. While the changes involved are not too extensive, we also don't want to ship 2.4 with a dependency that is still in beta and subject to change. While we are not planning to wait for Tiptap V3 to be stable, necessarily, we do at least want to give it a little bit more time so we have a higher degree of confidence that we're shipping a stable editing experience.

We started talking about a rewrite (again)​

While this is not currently the direction we've decided to go in, it's responsible for us to at least consider all routes available to us to help us reach our destination.

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After nearly 8 years since the release of XenForo 2.0, many of the technologies we use are showing their age, many of the decisions we made have started to slow us down more than we would like, and as a framework, XenForo becomes a less productive framework to work with. The solution to this problem can be to start from scratch, but we have ultimately decided that this is not something we need to do at this stage.

Instead, over the next few versions, including 2.4, we will be attempting to make iterative architectural changes to the framework so that we all have greater tools at our disposal to improve both the developer and user experience, particularly focusing on the implementation of developer tools and features that have become commonplace in other frameworks, such as Laravel.

Some of our best features are simply not finished​

There are one or two features that we see requested consistently from customers in our community forums and feedback channels, and we're excited to confirm they are coming in 2.4! However, it serves no one well if we release such highly-anticipated features before they are ready and before they have the usual level of quality, polish, and extensibility you would expect from a XenForo release. We'd rather take the extra time to get them right than rush them out and disappoint users with a subpar implementation that requires immediate patches or lacks the flexibility for customisation. We'll be sharing exciting details about what these features are and how they work in the coming weeks, so stay tuned!

We can't keep up!​

I just counted and there are about 15 features that have been merged or are pending to be merged into XF 2.4 that we haven't announced yet. Some of these are smaller and aren't worthy of a dedicated HYS of their own (so they'll probably be rolled into a "miscellaneous" HYS or two), and some of these are going to be mentioned below, but while we have been "cooking" (as the kids say these days) it has meant that things like code reviews, and writing HYS posts hasn't been easy to balance. There is also potentially more stuff coming from generous contributions from esteemed developers such as @Xon and @digitalpoint, assuming we have time to implement (otherwise they will wait for... a future version).


With all of that now being said, while 2.4 is taking longer than we wanted, we have been busy and we are very much nearing the end of development.

And, while disappointing (to all of us) it is important to maintain perspective. XenForo 2.2 was released in September 2020. XenForo 2.3 was released nearly four years later. XenForo 2.4 is not 3 more years away.

But, you clicked this to find out what's new, right? So let's go.
 
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It didn't "take us 8 years" to realise anything. 8 years ago, the framework was as strong as it could be. It was literally brand new, written from the ground up. It's also not about dependencies. The third party dependencies we use are minimal, and have evolved many times over the years, switching out mail libraries, upgrading HTTP clients, for example. Every release we update our third party dependencies to the latest versions. Every year we often have to patch them ourselves to ensure they still work with our minimum PHP version requirements while ensuring they also work with the latest PHP version.
That sounds like quite the challenge and headache of an undertaking, one that most people don't realise. I wish I was a developer and have the chance of joining your team to help speed up development.

Please do feel free to take your business elsewhere, if this is how you feel.

And you people wonder why we don't bother communicating on this forum anymore.
Thankfully, most of us are not so disaffected, so appreciate as much comms as possible.

Sure, I'd like to see faster development and more features like everyone else, but I get the complexity of the under the hood development and that you're only a small team. Plus, when I see the user interface on other forums, they really don't compare to the functionality here. There's certain functions, some quite small, but significant, that XF does that we take for granted over time until they're unavailable elsewhere and then it becomes obvious how much they add to the user experience and I really miss them.
 
This doesn't make any sense, on multiple levels.

First of all, very old and large communities are never the first to upgrade to new major or minor versions (major version being 2.x to 3.x, and minor version being 2.0.x to 2.1.x) as they will be significantly customised, either soft-locking them (read: time & effort) or hard-locking them (read: vital customisations not being offered by the vendor for the new version).

Secondly, very old and large communities also don't like frequent patch releases (patch release being 2.0.0 to 2.0.1) as it involves closing the site, taking backups, testing the restoration of the backup, then performing the upgrade. Or, if they're extra careful, cloning the site and performing the upgrade there.

There's a reason why XF tends to collect more bugfixes into one version as opposed to releasing a new version every time they find a new bug. I wonder, could it possibly be because they have analysed their own dataset of how frequently people are willing to upgrade to new versions? 🤔

People who know what they are doing value stability. There's a reason all enterprise-grade software offer LTS (Long-Term Support) versions.

It is a very harsh critique from my side, but you might want to stop and think a bit more before posting.
All of this.
 
It's good to have this communication! I don't agree with everyone getting on @Chris D 's back when he's finally doing exactly what we've all been asking for.

All that said, I will at least say that people do have at least a bit of a good reason to be nervous. Lack of communication helps nobody, and there may very well be some upset comments XF will have to deal with at first. But that aside, we can now start again.

Something I think the devs should be paying attention to is what is happening at Discourse. Their roadmap has been great and have AI integrated into everything.

Gods... Here we go about Aeh Eye again.

Look, I know the cats out the bag and that AI is going to take at least a bit of a place in modern development. I'm not a caveman. But holy hell, never have I seen a major technological breakthrough be not only so underwhelming for everyday people but downright negatively impacting. And even in code dev, there's rumors that the latest Nvidia drivers are sucking so hard because Jensen thinks AI is the second coming.

If XF should be doing anything at all related to AI, it's making AI poisoning tools to protect forums from the plague of bots and scrapers. And yes, they really have been a plague, even forcing certain sites to go offline due to the bots hitting servers so heavily and constantly. It's not enough that they're stealing content. They have to DDoS servers too.
 
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If XF should be doing anything at all related to AI, it's making AI poisoning tools to protect forums from the plague of bots and scrapers. And yes, they really have been a plague, even forcing certain sites to go offline due to the bots hitting servers so heavily and constantly.
I agree with this feature being handy. But personally I can see this being created as an addon rather than a key feature.
 
Am not a fan of AI because of what i've seen on facebook and how messy it can look.
But i do get the point of how it could get rid of all the bots and other unwanted guests.
But yet again, i don't want it blocking all traffic.
 
I’ve grown a bit tired of traditional forums, but I do appreciate this open and direct way of communication. The transparency around development is a big plus.

Still, I’d love to see more focus on user experience and design in the frontend. And on the backend side, it would be great if things were more intuitive for non-devs like me to understand how changes affect the frontend.

I've always found the way style properties work a bit clunky. Having to save each small change just to see the result breaks the flow. Live editing or instant feedback should be a given by now.

As for the design, I like the simplicity and clean layout, but it feels a bit dated. The interface seems boxed-in, and some tools look more like mockups than real features.

This isn't meant to be harsh. I really value what's already here and just wanted to share honest feedback.
 
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IPS has its own problems. Corporations may need to use it so they can check a bunch of boxes, but as a user, it's bad, at least compared to XF or even SMF.
I think both have their own advantages. One thing I believe is that if XF felt it was on par with IPS, the price would definitely be increased.
 
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