When forum software is used for nefarious purposes...

[Mr Lucky]

And again, Xenforo controls the software, not the content...

But it does controls the content of a any licensed site, not in dictating what the content is obviously, but in dictating what the content is not, ie via the T & C

The car analogy:

If I drive my Ferrari at 100 kilometers per hour and hit a child, is it Ferrari's fault?

is not relevant

I think xenForo's policy is a good one. It's not relevant that in most cases anyone who would infringe those T&C would be unlicensed. Scum who are involved in child abuse material would vey likely be scum in regard to respecting IP.

 

[Ricsca]

But do you think that if someone manages to run a forum about pedophilia online, would they have any problems getting an original Xenforo license? Or even if they bought the original one, would they have any problems stopping using XF because XF sends them an email?

 

[FTL]

Xenforo could, at the very least, make it clear to these people that they are aware of the use being made of their software and that they heartily disapprove (shall we say).

You do realise that the people running such an extremely illegal site would ensure that XF or the authorities would be unable to touch them, don't you? They would therefore just laugh in XF's face, so XF sending them a stern letter would be pointless and ridiculous.

 

[Suzanne O]

I reckon if there is anything dodgy going on, XF would take them down.
They do check on license requirements

 

[zappaDPJ]

They would therefore just laugh in XF's face, so XF sending them a stern letter would be pointless and ridiculous.

I'd argue a cease and desist letter is essential or the software vendor might be seen to have culpability for their product being used for an illegal purpose.

 

[Ricsca]

I'd argue a cease and desist letter is essential or the software vendor might be seen to have culpability for their product being used for an illegal purpose.

I think you're talking nonsense! Xeonfor provides forum software, stop!
They're not responsible for what's written on sites that use their software!
If, due to internal policy, they decide that sites with illegal content shouldn't use their software, that's a good thing in terms of professional ethics, not because they'd be responsible for the content of others not managed by them.
But then I repeat what I've said many times... if someone opens a website with illegal content without caring about the law, do you think they care that, for reasons of ethics, Xeonforo doesn't want their forum used for that topic?

 

[FTL]

I'd argue a cease and desist letter is essential or the software vendor might be seen to have culpability for their product being used for an illegal purpose.

Ok, that's a fair point.

 

[Ricsca]

But if a robbery occurs, does the car manufacturer send a letter to the thieves, telling them they must no longer use their brand of car? Will the police blame the car manufacturers because the thieves committed a robbery with one of their models?
Are you serious?

 

[mjda]

But if a robbery occurs, does the car manufacturer send a letter to the thieves, telling them they must no longer use their brand of car? Will the police blame the car manufacturers because the thieves committed a robbery with one of their models?
Are you serious?

If they send the letter, at least when asked, or if a legal situation does arise, they can say something like "we don't condone that activity, and we've taken the necessary steps towards revoking their license and removing our software from their site". Basically, they've covered their bases, whether it does any good or not. It's much better than "well, we knew we couldn't do anything about it so instead of doing anything at all, we just let them keep going so we could keep getting paid".

 

[Alvin63]

Is it actually possible to stop someone using the software once it's been bought and downloaded? Although every licence has to have the domain name registered doesn't it? So there should be a domain name blacklist for not selling licences to. But maybe it's pirated anyway. Surely the only thing to do is report an illegal site to the police, if you become aware of it. Which also covers bases.

 

[GrnEyedDvl]

I'd argue a cease and desist letter is essential or the software vendor might be seen to have culpability for their product being used for an illegal purpose.

And I would argue that the idea that society goes after the manufacturer of any product for what irresponsible or nefarious people do with that product is a very slippery slope. Alcohol and guns are the two big ones as far as physical products. But whether its a physical product or a digital one the concept is just plain wrong.

If XenForo is responsible for a child predator site, is not the domain registrar also responsible? And RedHat or Unbuntu or Microsoft, whatever its hosted on? And his ISP? Oh they also used FileZilla to upload these nasty pics to their site. Let's get them too. And the guy who invented whatever open source widget they used to show those pics inside the XenForo site, him too. And he used X email service to verify registrations. And Y DNS servers. And Z physical server equipment. And .....

 

[Margo Bell]

I'd argue a cease and desist letter is essential or the software vendor might be seen to have culpability for their product being used for an illegal purpose.

Correct. I would also point out that the people who run these sites view a lack of action from their software suppliers as something that legitimizes what they're doing (in their warped worldview).

 

[Margo Bell]

And I would argue that the idea that society goes after the manufacturer of any product for what irresponsible or nefarious people do with that product is a very slippery slope. Alcohol and guns are the two big ones as far as physical products. But whether its a physical product or a digital one the concept is just plain wrong.

If XenForo is responsible for a child predator site, is not the domain registrar also responsible? And RedHat or Unbuntu or Microsoft, whatever its hosted on? And his ISP? Oh they also used FileZilla to upload these nasty pics to their site. Let's get them too. And the guy who invented whatever open source widget they used to show those pics inside the XenForo site, him too. And he used X email service to verify registrations. And Y DNS servers. And Z physical server equipment. And .....

The answer is, yes, if they choose to be. A lot of companies do. I have had success in having such sites taken down by notifying their hosting service (what they're doing is a slam-dunk violation of pretty much any Terms of Service agreement), by having their domain registration pulled, by habving their email service cancelled, etc.

 

[SneakyDave]

Slightly separate subject, but, Xenforo allows Dragonbyte Tech to profit from selling XF add-ons here. Is there much of a difference?

*Warning: NSFW - Dragonbyte Tech Convictions.

All I'm saying is that if it was me and I was looking at what I considered art, that until last year was actually legal, and that is what I pleaded guilty to under a new law, then I would be outraged and go after anyone saying it was something that people in general would consider a lot more...

www.theadminzone.com

All y'all still using those add-ons.

 

[Margo Bell]

I think you're talking nonsense! Xeonfor provides forum software, stop!
They're not responsible for what's written on sites that use their software!
If, due to internal policy, they decide that sites with illegal content shouldn't use their software, that's a good thing in terms of professional ethics, not because they'd be responsible for the content of others not managed by them.
But then I repeat what I've said many times... if someone opens a website with illegal content without caring about the law, do you think they care that, for reasons of ethics, Xeonforo doesn't want their forum used for that topic?

You might be surprised. A lot of these people (believe it or not) consider themselves to be 'honorable'.

I'd have said it's at least worth a try, no?

 

[Margo Bell]

I reckon if there is anything dodgy going on, XF would take them down.
They do check on license requirements

You'd hope so, wouldn't you?

 

[Chris D]

I promise everyone in this thread, much like we have done with other sites, all avenues are being explored, but we cannot provide an ongoing commentary on what that is.

If you think it’s as simple as we can “take them down”, I’m afraid you don’t have a very good understanding of how this works, and I can say that confidently from past experience.

 

[Suzanne O]

You'd hope so, wouldn't you?

They do a licence check every day.

 

[Suzanne O]

I promise everyone in this thread, much like we have done with other sites, all avenues are being explored, but we cannot provide an ongoing commentary on what that is.

If you think it’s as simple as we can “take them down”, I’m afraid you don’t have a very good understanding of how this works, and I can say that confidently from past experience.

Exactly this.

Think those kind of sites need to be reported to the police first.

 

[Ricsca]

I promise everyone in this thread, much like we have done with other sites, all avenues are being explored, but we cannot provide an ongoing commentary on what that is.

If you think it’s as simple as we can “take them down”, I’m afraid you don’t have a very good understanding of how this works, and I can say that confidently from past experience.

Out of curiosity, did this site actually turn out to be an illegal site with pedophilic content or is it just another porn forum?