When forum software is used for nefarious purposes...

grant sarver said:
OK, getting back to the OP; Sorry, I don't find your examples to be analogous. Your examples are one time events. The forums would be on-going. If a drive-by shooter was going out every night, would you object to the car manufacturer remotely disabling his vehicle? Or the gun manufacturer (if they had the ability) disabling his weapon? Closer analogy to my mind as the software manufacturer does not need to physically repossess the software. The goal is to prevent further abuse.
Click to expand...

I was including all posts above that related to the OP topic. the drive by was in contribute to a post that was already made. maybe reading the conclusion to the whole of my post might help, its located as my last paragraph, prior to my personal insertion
 
Pretty much the largest child pornography site on the open internet uses Xenforo.

I get the 'where do you draw the line' arguments, but my view would be that wherever you draw the line, child pornography is always going to be on the wrong side of it.

Anyone disagree?

The site is huge (around 600,000 registered users), so either Xenforo is making significant revenue from child pornography, or they are being seriously defrauded. Either way, I'd have thought that Xenforo would wish to take some action to disassociate themselves from this site.

I've seen arguments from XenForo that withdrawing their licence (if they have one) wouldn't stop them using the site, and that they can't do anything about pirated sites. This is quite apart from the fact that using the software for this purpose violates the license agreement (again, if they are using the software legitimately). One wonders what the point of the license agreement is, if it's completely unenforceable?

Respectfully, I am not buying these arguments.
 
Margo Bell said:
Pretty much the largest child pornography site on the open internet uses Xenforo.

I get the 'where do you draw the line' arguments, but my view would be that wherever you draw the line, child pornography is always going to be on the wrong side of it.

Anyone disagree?

The site is huge (around 600,000 registered users), so either Xenforo is making significant revenue from child pornography, or they are being seriously defrauded. Either way, I'd have thought that Xenforo would wish to take some action to disassociate themselves from this site.

I've seen arguments from XenForo that withdrawing their licence (if they have one) wouldn't stop them using the site, and that they can't do anything about pirated sites. This is quite apart from the fact that using the software for this purpose violates the license agreement (again, if they are using the software legitimately). One wonders what the point of the license agreement is, if it's completely unenforceable?

Respectfully, I am not buying these arguments.
Click to expand...
How is XenForo making significant income from one forum not following the license agreement?
 
Margo Bell said:
If the site is licensed, then XF is making revenue from child pornography. End of.

Are you OK with that?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how much experience you have with people stealing your software... but it's entirely possible to steal a piece of software (like XF) and host it somewhere where legal actions don't matter. I sincerely doubt such a site is legitimately licensed and if the content is what you say it is, then it's very well likely hosted somewhere out of legal reach of any jurisdiction that has any teeth to do anything about it.

This is not saying that nobody cares, but if the applicable legal jurisdiction won't take action on a legit complaint, what choice is left?
 
Xenforo could, at the very least, make it clear to these people that they are aware of the use being made of their software and that they heartily disapprove (shall we say). There may actually be legal means to pursue these users; you might be surprised at how brazen some of these folks are. As I pointed out, if the software isn't licensed, then Xenforo is being seriously ripped off and that is something I would have thought that Xenforo would at least try to address.

A cease and desist letter might be a place to start. To paraphrase you, I'm not sure how much experience you have with trying to get CP sites taken down but one of the amazing things is that these people do actually regard themselves as being 'honorable', believe it or not.
 
Those who sell a program to make community I don't think you have to interest the type of community that the customer then creates us.
It would be a positive thing if he did it but in case I do not see it as a negative thing.
 
Margo Bell said:
Pretty much the largest child pornography site on the open internet uses Xenforo.

I get the 'where do you draw the line' arguments, but my view would be that wherever you draw the line, child pornography is always going to be on the wrong side of it.

Anyone disagree?

The site is huge (around 600,000 registered users), so either Xenforo is making significant revenue from child pornography, or they are being seriously defrauded. Either way, I'd have thought that Xenforo would wish to take some action to disassociate themselves from this site.

I've seen arguments from XenForo that withdrawing their licence (if they have one) wouldn't stop them using the site, and that they can't do anything about pirated sites. This is quite apart from the fact that using the software for this purpose violates the license agreement (again, if they are using the software legitimately). One wonders what the point of the license agreement is, if it's completely unenforceable?

Respectfully, I am not buying these arguments.
Click to expand...
At most, XF receives about $70 a year for license renewals, and it has no connection whatsoever to the topic users discuss in their forum! So why are you talking about huge profits? You realize you've said something you could be sued for?
Besides, child pornography is illegal practically everywhere in the world, so it seems strange to me that a pedophile forum with over 600,000 members exists!
If it's simply a porn site and you're so bigoted as to not want porn sites, that's your problem...
 
Ricsca said:
At most, XF receives about $70 a year for license renewals, and it has no connection whatsoever to the topic users discuss in their forum! So why are you talking about huge profits? I realize you've said something you could be sued for?
Besides, pornography is illegal practically everywhere in the world, so it seems strange to me that a pedophile forum with over 600,000 members exists!
If it's simply a porn site and you're so bigoted as to not want porn sites, that's your problem...
Click to expand...
So making money from child porn is OK as long as it's only $70 a year? Right.

And what would I be sued for, exactly?

Such a site does indeed exist, sadly.

Are you aware that there is such a thing as a company having some business ethics and morals? I have contacted other companies in a similar situation and, for the most part, they are absolutely horrified, thank me profusely for notifying them, and do everything in their power to extract themselves from any involvement. Xeforo seems to shrug its shoulders.
 
Xenforo sells the license for its software; it's not responsible for the community's behavior!
If the site is illegal, it will almost certainly use a nulled version, let alone worry about paying for license renewals.
If I drive my Ferrari at 100 kilometers per hour and hit a child, is it Ferrari's fault?
 
Ricsca said:
At most, XF receives about $70 a year for license renewals, and it has no connection whatsoever to the topic users discuss in their forum! So why are you talking about huge profits? You realize you've said something you could be sued for?
Besides, child pornography is illegal practically everywhere in the world, so it seems strange to me that a pedophile forum with over 600,000 members exists!
If it's simply a porn site and you're so bigoted as to not want porn sites, that's your problem...
Click to expand...
Incidentally, here is the current Xenforo pricing. Bit more than a $70 renewal:

xenforo.com

Get started with XenForo

Choose a solution to suit your needs
xenforo.com xenforo.com

I would guess that with their site traffic, if they are licensed then they would have to be on the $250 a month package
 
Margo Bell said:
I would guess that with their site traffic, if they are licensed then they would have to be on the $250 a month package
Click to expand...
To clarify we have two ways of providing the software. The first (and oldest) is via a self hosted license. This is where a customer purchases the software and installs it on their own hosting. We have little control over the software at that point. The second, (which you just referenced) is XenForo Cloud, where we fully host the software on our servers. In this case we will immediately investigate and remove any CSAM content.

We may be able to take some action with regards to self-hosted licenses too, not least making sure any business arrangement with them is severed, in addition to reporting to authorities, but in any case, we need to be made aware of such things first.

If you'd be kind enough to provide details we will investigate and do our best.
 
Last edited:
Ricsca said:
Xenforo sells the license for its software; it's not responsible for the community's behavior!
If the site is illegal, it will almost certainly use a nulled version, let alone worry about paying for license renewals.
If I drive my Ferrari at 100 kilometers per hour and hit a child, is it Ferrari's fault?
Click to expand...
From the Xenforo license agreement:

You undertake to ensure that the Software is not used by You or others to engage in or promote: illegal activity; any activity that would violate the rights of third parties; defamation, discrimination, harassment, hatred or harm of third parties.

XenForo Limited reserves the right to revoke Your License to use the Software should any of the terms of this Agreement be violated. In the event that We revoke Your License for a violation of this Agreement, no refund will be granted.

Xenforo state here that they in fact, do care about what people do with their software, and (it would appear) have the capability to take action
 
Chris D said:
XenForo is not aware of the site you're talking about. If you could shoot me a DM or submit a message via the contact form, we will be investigate.

Contact us
Click to expand...
Chris, thanks for your response. Not sure if you're new to Xenforo, but this situation has been reported to you in the past, so you should be very well aware of which site I'm talking about.

However, I will DM you as requested.
 
I just realised you might not be able to DM (due to new member restrictions).

I have manually added you to the established members group to enable this.
 
Margo Bell said:
Incidentally, here is the current Xenforo pricing. Bit more than a $70 renewal:

xenforo.com

Get started with XenForo

Choose a solution to suit your needs
xenforo.com xenforo.com

I would guess that with their site traffic, if they are licensed then they would have to be on the $250 a month package
Click to expand...

If the site contains illegal content, it will almost certainly use a Self-Hosted license.

xenforo.com

Self-hosted XenForo licenses

Purchase XenForo software licenses and add-on products for installation on your own infrastructure
xenforo.com xenforo.com

And again, Xenforo controls the software, not the content...
 

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