WHAT IF: vb guys won the case vs xenforo?

Fred Sherman said:
Kier, I did just what you suggest. I've been a programmer and IT professional since 1987. I've written code in over a over dozen languages from assembler, to Ada to PHP and almost everything in between. To say that XF is based upon VB is like saying a Dodge Challenger is based on a Ford F150 pickup because they both have headlights, steering wheels and door handle without every considering the vast difference in the engines or transmissions.

To me, the conclusion of any reasonable, rational person would be to toss IB out of court after giving them hell for taking up the court's time on a frivilous lawsuit. If only California judges were know for being reasonable and rational.
Click to expand...

And yet, claiming (by IB) to own industry standards (where are the patents?) is an option to waste not just the time and resources of an individual using his expertise knowledge he had prior to working with Jelsoft, or the Company and employees of it, but also the justice system, the judge and potentially the jury if it goes to trial.

You can't 'unlearn' grown knowledge, a test driver for Ferrari starting his own test driving company after his non-compete claus expired can't drive using the break pedal to try and mix things up, nor can he unlearn pushing it down at the right time. That expertise is what made him get hired at Ferrari in the first place, and it is what made him good enough to start his own company.

The claims seem to go as far as implying they have patents and trademarks on the industry standards. Like the nofollow tag, or using a js framework, or simply 'making a good product'.

If IB gets their way (they after all have the most money, and in the USA money always wins) and this goes to trial I am curious to see if they will even win, and if so, how that affects me personally as a customer having spend money on both vBulletin and XenForo. Will I continue to run XenForo if it in some crazy way becomes property of IB? Doubtful. If they would have bought-out XenForo Limited for 100 million UK pound in cash, it might be a different story, but a low-blow move such as creating unfair business by filing a suit against newcomers in the bbs market .. I feel no motivation to run a site showing support for such a company. They've lost face by pulling a stunt like that.

Win or no win for IB, and to quote Adrian from IB: ".. it is fair to say that if vBulletin ends in a grave, it will be us that have taken it there, not XenForo .."

Since I joined the Internet over 15 years ago, and since playing with telnet and the early bbs systems, I have always had nothing but one feeling and motivation to run a site: A great place for my good friends to converse, and be friends. Despite the limits of distance. There is no hidden agenda for 'feeling involved with a great community', to me great software helps, obviously, but we can go back to telnet and have that same feeling of being part of a great community. It's the community what makes the community. The forum software is the shell that helps thing be a smooth experience. Trademark that ****.
 
At the end of the day it's not about patents, breach of contracts, Copyright being broken, code being taken and used. It's one thing, and one thing only a personal vendetta. Obviously, mr "insert name here" woke up one morning, looked himself in the mirror and was overwhelmed with incompetency. That does some strange things to people when they look back, and see how fast the world has moved forward and grudge the people that give back to people that they obviously couldn't.

Again, I apologise for my english my one and only language is english.
 
CroNiX said:
XF should counter-sue right now and put an end to this madness. I read on vb.com that they are starting to use jQuery.
Click to expand...

Counter-sue for damages caused by creating unfair business is a better bet - and still hard to win - than filing suit for defamation of character; which in UK/US is very hard to proof and win.

Loss in damages have to be proven, not impossible, but it feels like that would be a bet.

I rather recommend the XFL guys to do what they do best: Code, code well, and do good by the customers.
Jelsoft has proven in their first 6 years that is just that, without advertising they took over the market.

Or, get another job, in a different field, and care for what you care most about: your family.

We're all just bits and bytes on the Internet after all, but offline the bills are very real. Gambling with lawsuits won't help anybody, it wastes time and money. Selling excellent software or having a good paying job .. that pays the bills now and in the long run.

It's just such a shame to hear that IB doesn't want Kier to buy food for his toddlers the coming years. What a shame that they do not realize they're asking for damages due to breaking of contract, equal to what is realistic for a person, but that they're deliberately (they asked to make Kier an example) asking for the most damages possible, making sure Kier has to file for bankruptcy and ruin his family situation.

Doesn't the mafia do that if you don't pay in time?

Unfair business is claimed by IB, I find it quite unfair that if damages asked by Kier for the nonsense IB caused him won't even dent Bob Brisco his wallet or the very generous end-year bonus. But the other way around he's ruining three families.

That's just my opinion, based on observing this situation.

I was brought up being asked to understand the difference between right and wrong, to use common sense, and care for the other person. To have my own opinion about politics and religion. To resolve disputes with words, rather than provoke fights, and to do the best you can to your ability, and then some.

I wasn't brought up believing that every penny you can get out of others to better yourself, despite causing harm, is the way to go.
 
Shelley said:
At the end of the day it's not about patents, breach of contracts, Copyright being broken, code being taken and used. It's one thing, and one thing only a personal vendetta. Obviously, mr "insert name here" woke up one morning, looked himself in the mirror and was overwhelmed with incompetency. That does some strange things to people when they look back, and see how fast the world has moved forward and grudge the people that give back to people that they obviously couldn't.

Again, I apologise for my english my one and only language is english.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we don't live in fairy-tales. "They made me cry" doesn't stand in court, facts do. And facts supported by evidence for claims failed is what helps clear things up and create a verdict that will resolve the question of 'was a law broken, how severe, and if so, what should be done about that'.

It is about the patents and breach of contracts, trade secret stuff and all that. That "IRL" the motivation to file claims is about 'hurt-feelings' is not a fact or evidence that a law was broken or not.
 
Floris said:
Unfortunately we don't live in fairy-tales. "They made me cry" doesn't stand in court, facts do. And facts supported by evidence for claims failed is what helps clear things up and create a verdict that will resolve the question of 'was a law broken, how severe, and if so, what should be done about that'.

It is about the patents and breach of contracts, trade secret stuff and all that. That "IRL" the motivation to file claims is about 'hurt-feelings' is not a fact or evidence that a law was broken or not.
Click to expand...

I know. I'm referring to the agenda behind the lawsuit that prompt it.
 
Paul M said:
In the event they actually won, that would probably be unwise.

However, the chances of them winning outright are [I think] about the same as me winning the Lottery Jackpot this weekend.
Click to expand...


What scares me the most... is that I haven't yet seen posts from Paul M this weekend so he may in fact have won the Lottery :D

The way I see it is very unlikely for IB to win the case, it seems more they were trying to create some dark cloud over the product while also slowing down development and support...

Paul M, just for the record, if you did play, I hope you win the Lottery :)
 
Here's how I see it...

In NO way is xF like vB except with it's candy shell. So based on that, the internet brands would lose no doubt.

-----------

However, if vB says that Mike & Kier created a competitive product while working for vB, then I say they are in trouble(even if done on their own time). Some companies put a clause in their contract that says you can't create a product to compete with their product for at least 2 years. Hopefully, there is no such clause.

From what I read, xenforo.com was bought a year before Mike & Kier left vB. So that will definitely raise some eyebrows.... EDIT: Not true!

Maybe Mike or Kier will comment on that.

If xF loses because of that, then all sales of xF will cease & desist and/or Mike & Kier will have to pay a hefty lump sum. Although there is nothing to say that those of us who have already purchased it cannot continue to use what we have. I for one, regardless of outcome, have they right to continue using xF and intend to do so.

I do think xF should counter-sue. It certainly has an effect on sales, and tarnishes xF reputation for some, but I wouldn't counter-sue until the last minute to try and keep tensions light between companies.

Just my 2 cents...
 
Xarcell said:
I do think xF should counter-sue.
Click to expand...

I've never commented on anything content related when it came to the lawsuit (cause I know zero point zero about these kinds of things), but I will say this: I believe the most wise thing to do is actually not get into that same energy Internet Brands is so eager to immerse themselves (and the people unfortunately connected with them) in. Counter-suing keeps you into this energy. My advice (based on my own experience and wise advices people gave me in the past): just... let.it.go.
 
It's still win-win even if vBulletin wins. The reaction over there has been overwhelmingly negative and it isn't even ethical. I don't see either how this will get back any customers they lost.
 
What are they going to 'win' ?

You don't 'win' in the real world by building a house of cards or blowing a smoke screen, Brisco already pulled one rabbit out of his hat when he found a buyer for that dump before the stock sold off into nothing costing him everything !!
 
Top Bottom