Very much LOST

[tomatoman]

To be honest, after coming to this site and spending some time looking around I feel like someone with a Grade 2 education that just stumbled into a MENSA meeting.

At age 67, I'm no stranger to computers, the internet or on-line forums. However, as someone who would now like to start up a forum of his own, I have a ton of questions. I have no experience in running a forum other than acting as a Mod on one site. Therefore, all of the terminology used on this site is akin to trying to decipher a long, dead language. This is not to say that I am incapable of learning but I don't know where to begin.

I'd like to purchase the current version of the software with a view to putting my site together but I'm wondering just how steep the learning curve will be. In addition, I realize that buying the XF BETA version is simply a single step in the process of ending up on-line with my project. It would be nice if I had a much clearer understanding as to what the first step would be and then the steps that must follow to ultimately reach my goal. Of course, there is also the issue of initial costs as well as ongoing costs and once again, I have no clue about those either.Disclosure on that aspect would be most welcome too.

Perhaps I am asking a lot. I don't know. However, if I don't ask..... I'll never know...... so here I am.......looking for all the assistance that forum members and XF staff are willing to provide. I thank you for your anticipated assistance.

 

[steven s]

Interesting........................... your site takes the first three TOP spots. That..........is impressive.

And so........ you are telling me that you have done NOTHING else to make that happen? It is just your domain name that is triggering Google to give you top billing.

My site has is approaching 280,000 posts and there are a lot of links to the site. All that helps.

On the new site I am working on, I have 3 top level domains all pointing the same forum. I also have 3 longer names that are similar pointing to the same forum.
It's not going to help with my ranking, just make it less of a chance for someone to forget the TLD.

 

[Puntocom]

Not neccesarily, but that domain name would definitely help to improve Google rankings.

I don't know about Godaddy since I use namecheap.

 

[tomatoman]

No. The domain name does not affect the search rankings.

Then how do you explain the results from "318ti" used as a search?

Just asking.

 

[tomatoman]

You base that finding on what, exactly? Do you think Google spends 200 million dollars a year on engineers salaries so they can rank sites by "keywords"? Really? You don't think there might be just a teensy bit more to it than that?

Huh? That's like saying, "This tumbler of gin doesn't improve my looks, but it sure makes me pretty."

1) Domain name does not affect Google ranking.
2) "Keywords" (as in meta tag keywords) do not affect any search engine ranking.

You can speculate all you'd like, those are facts.

Per your recommendation, I tried the tumbler of gin and after awhile your avatar photo did look a lot prettier but then I couldn't find my Viagara to act on it.

Since I don't like to speculate, perhaps you would explain in detail EXACTLY what Google and other search engines DO look for?

And if shadow domains don't help point searchers to a site, then why do people rely on them?

 

[Paul B]

See this post by Mike as to what Google does use: http://xenforo.com/community/threads/adding-meta-tag-keywords.5742/#post-100934

Recently we received some questions about how Google uses (or more accurately, doesn't use) the "keywords" meta tag in ranking web search results. Suppose you have two website owners, Alice and Bob. Alice runs a company called AliceCo and Bob runs BobCo. One day while looking at Bob's site, Alice notices that Bob has copied some of the words that she uses in her "keywords" meta tag. Even more interesting, Bob has added the words "AliceCo" to his "keywords" meta tag. Should Alice be concerned?

At least for Google's web search results currently (September 2009), the answer is no. Google doesn't use the "keywords" meta tag in our web search ranking. This video explains more, or see the questions below.

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/09/google-does-not-use-keywords-meta-tag.html

 

[FredC]

Huh? That's like saying, "This tumbler of gin doesn't improve my looks, but it sure makes me pretty."

So if i buy a domain titled German Shepard Chat, but run a poodle forum, that wont effect relevant search results in any way? pfff, ok if you say so. The key words in my post you quoted agreed that it may not effect search engine rankings, but it most certainly will help relevant search results.

 

[welshstew]

But it doesn't. It's not taken into account in the rankings at Google, anyway.

Listen, I'm no SEO expert. But I work with a bunch of guys who are. And I can tell you without any question that the domain name means nothing where SEO is concerned.

I'm no expert, but the guys over at SEOmoz ran a survey of the top ranking factors and domain name came out as the third highest correlating factor for on-site optimization:

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors#ranking-factors

You can also read Googles own SEo starter guide to help you with an overview:
http://static.googleusercontent.com.../search-engine-optimization-starter-guide.pdf

 

[HannahP]

perhaps you would explain in detail EXACTLY what Google and other search engines DO look for?

The important thing to remember is, no one knows Google's ranking algorithm. People learn things about it through trial and error.

Here are a few of the latest things that a group of nerds with PhDs who have kept our corporate sites at the number one spot on Google for 6 or 7 years have found relating to Google (if I give you everything, they will tar and feather me, which I understand would please some of you, but I don't look good in feathers, you'll have to trust me on that):

• Header markup <H1, 2, 3, etc.> figures prominently in what areas your site is considered relevant.
• Site loading speed is now an important factor in rankings, where it did not matter much in the past.
• Relevant sentences and paragraphs: good, endless lists of phrases or keywords (even if they are relevant!): not good.
• Also not good; excessively long <img> tag descriptions (people have been using those to "keyword stuff," so their relevance has decreased).
• And of course "hidden" keywords or text the same color as the page background are a big no-no.

You probably already knew some of that, but maybe there's something in there you can use. The <H> tag relevance was new to me, but it makes sense.

I never argued against having a relevant domain name. But tell me what is relevant about amazon.com, ebay, hulu, youtube, yahoo, flickr, facebook, bing, twitter - feel free to stop me at any time, here - or google.com, for that matter? Somehow all the world's most popular web sites have domain names that have nothing to do with the content. If the domain name is so relevant, how can that be? It's a real head-scratcher, ain't it?

 

[Jake Bunce]

Google page rank algorithm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank

Basically your page rank is a function of how many sites link to your site.

 

[Edrondol]

Thanks. The math just broke my head.

 

[HannahP]

Basically your page rank is a function of how many sites link to your site.

Note that Google "PageRank" and Google search result rankings are two different things.

But the number of sites that link to your site does also factor in to search result rankings.

 

[tomatoman]

Trust me when I say that I appreciate each and every reply to my questions. When you know just about nothing, you are like a fresh, dry sponge trying to soak up whatever you can. Filtration will take place later.

What is becoming more and more apparent to me is that I shouldn't really give a crap about my choice of domain name at this point. I should just choose something that seems relevant at the moment and then buy the software so I can put it onto a hosting site so I can get on with creating my vision. At that point, I can see and do what's possible within the parameters of XF as it is currently written and then ask for help to solve the shortcomings. There comes a point when further discussion seems rather pointless, especially when I only understand about 50% of the language being used. Thanks to Wikipedia, I get a bit more savvy every day. I now know what a WAMP is and that explanation told me why I don't want to make love to one.

Once I go live with the site, I'll conduct my own searches and see if I can actually find myself. It that happens, think of all the therapy money that will save me.

 

[Decent60]

Learning by mistakes is the best teacher, especially when you got 30 or 40 "tutors" to help you out on.
Just remember the key concepts of a good site: KISS method, little downtime, backup, backup and backup.
As for the domain name, keeping it relative and as short as possible will help people to keep coming back and spreading your site around. After all, I love this webcomic: http://www.thedreamlandchronicles.com but it's a pain to type out when I want to tell my friends about it lol

 

[Anthony Parsons]

A direct domain name search should absolutely bring up your site on the first page, and Google have stated this previously. Whether its #1 or not... that's another thing... as stated previously, it doesn't affect your rankings in the way you think it does, but it does play a role for being searched directly. Keyword domains are an issue depending on the popularity of the keyword, and Google is an increasingly smart beast to beat. A keyword domain is different from say a unique name for a company.

This is why SEO is a useless, irrelevant name nowadays, because from a marketing perspective, and Google methods, if you have a direct matching domain name, Google highlight that to the user, thus the human eye will naturally gravitate towards exact match terms that are in bold, like Google do. So that will get you a better clickthrough rate compared to a non-domain name term.

As also mentioned previously... long names can be more destructive than good, because you forget a user when they may want to link to them, refer them, etc... humans are lazy and will naturally type in something short and catchy before they type in some long winded keyword domain name. The addition of hypens or such, usually only increases the chance of a user getting it wrong when manually writing it on some blog they are referencing to something they read on your site.

If your primary site intent is short, then yes, getting that into the domain name is good, but not imperative, nor should it be made the #1 task when picking a domain name.

Also, choosing the dregs with .info or such is not wise either, especially if .com, .org versions exist already, because people will get that wrong as well. Unless country specific, ie. .co.uk or .com.au or .us etc. If your target is specifically a country, then go country TLD. If global, .com is the only worthwhile venture to use / own with redirect to your used version. You should always aim for the best method for users, then only give if you really have too.

 

[Edrondol]

He and I looked through a bunch of different things and anything short is taken by an active site or being squatted on. Frankly I had no idea there was so much interest in garden tractors.

 

[tomatoman]

As I have said repeatedly, I appreciate all advice. However, either I don't understand how to get around my problem or some of you well-meaning folks don't understand what I'm faced with here.

Perhaps this will help.

Suppose YOU own a Colt or Case or Ingersoll garden tractor and now the SOB won't run for you. The problem needs to be fixed ASAP and you turn to the internet for help. What would YOU type into your fave search engine? Well, since you own a Case garden tractor, isn't that the most logical phrase? Please tell me if I'm off base here. But if you agree, then take a moment and type all three of those phrases into your search engine and see what comes up. I'm willing to bet the you will see a site with two of those names in the domain name along with the dreaded hyphens you tell me are a bad move.

Now, if you find this site and it provides help for you, then are you not going to bookmark it so you don't need to remember that cumbersome URL? And if you forget to bookmark it and you forget the URL, will you also forget how you found it in the first place? And will it matter at that point whether the extension is dot com or dot org or dot info? Isn't the most important thing to have people find you with the search? How many users leap to the conclusion that online forums all use dot com? I'm just asking. I'm not arguing. I'm simply expressing my point of view. Change my mind. The door is open.

 

[HannahP]

Suppose YOU own a Colt or Case or Ingersoll garden tractor and now the SOB won't run for you. The problem needs to be fixed ASAP and you turn to the internet for help. What would YOU type into your fave search engine?

It doesn't matter. If the forum is overflowing with relevant, useful information, your site will rank near the top. No matter what you do and no matter what you call it. SEO, scary moonlight gyrations and sacrifices or praying to Norse Gods won't make an irrelevant site a top search result.

Google wants their results to be accurate. That's why they spend so much time and money making sure you can't manipulate them.

Run the most comprehensive and definitive site on the subject. That's what it's all about. Do that and the search engines will find you. You won't have to worry about them.

 

[Dean]

It doesn't matter. If the forum is overflowing with relevant, useful information, your site will rank near the top. No matter what you do and no matter what you call it. SEO, scary moonlight gyrations and sacrifices or praying to Norse Gods won't make an irrelevant site a top search result.

Google wants their results to be accurate. That's why they spend so much time and money making sure you can't manipulate them.

Run the most comprehensive and definitive site on the subject. That's what it's all about. Do that and the search engines will find you. You won't have to worry about them.

Well, yes, you are correct... but when I search for things I only click on the results that make sense for what I am searching for. Most of the time the domain names that have little to do with what I am looking for are sites I really don't want to waste my time on.

 

[welshstew]

What would YOU type into your fave search engine?

I would search for "garden tractor repairs" and then possibly add my locale

If my search pulled up two sites; one called gardentractorrepairs.com and the other ccig.com then I would click through on the former, as the domain name provides information about what the site is. It adds gravitas to your site.

It doesn't matter.

@mjp - it does matter what you search for, as it is these search terms that are matched back to your site content.

 

[Floris]

Who cares about search engines - isn't it about you and having fun on your site? If you got a great place, people will find it. And so will the search engines. Fun and good, great and exciting, informative and relevant content is recognized.