vb5 beta released, and...
- Thread starter Apokalupsis
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Digital Doctor
Well-known member
All THEIR sites use vB3. They passed on 4 because they knew it sucked.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Same excuse ... for 2.5+ years.
CTXMedia
Well-known member
http://www.bikeforums.net/ - is owned by Internet Brands and uses vB4. 
jadmperry
Well-known member
http://www.bikeforums.net/ - is owned by Internet Brands and uses vB4.
I guess that corrects the above post- ALL THEIR SITES minus one....
Jokes aside, I am curious if any of their sites use their CMS? When it was hyped and rolled out (based on videos, screenshots, etc., ) I thought it would be a good product. It was hell for me to use. I wonder if there are any successful implementations of the "Suite" by IB sites.
If I recall correctly, there used to be CMS articles on vb.com. No longer, as far as I can tell. Unless I just couldn't find them, but either way, that does not show a ton of confidence, or pride in the major up sell for people like me who had forum plus blogs at roll out- the CMS was supposed to make the "Suite" sweet enough to buy it for those who already had blogs installed.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Here is the list I used:
vBulletin.com links: Why doesn't Internet Brand's forums use vBulletin 4 ?
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/sho...esn-t-Internet-Brand-s-forums-use-vBulletin-4
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/sho...Internet-Brand-s-forums-use-vBulletin-4-(pt2)
List generated from : http://www.internetbrands.com/ib/autonetwork/
jadmperry
Well-known member
Not that I care too much...I know IB has by and large not migrated their own sites to 4.x, but I assume, after checking only one site, that your list was of all of their sites and the bikes forum was the only one that showed migration?
Either way, what most interests me is any of them using CMS. I was surprised when I saw the vb.com apparently has given up on using that "flagship" part of their (not so) Suite product.
Andrew B.
Member
Yes, I know. The point is, forums have to work with PHP etc. Eventually VB3 will be problematic. And as the rest of the web simplifies more and more, VB3 will look clunky. Now, they could keep patching VB3 for their own use, but then that is expending resources for less return (because it is not their sales focus). But I guess they could do that.
Andrew B.
Member
I'm staff on a VB forum, and we never installed VB4 because the owner procrastinates. So I have no direct experience; I only hear from others. I know admins who upgraded and are thrilled with VB4. Others see it as unacceptable. I don't know why there is such a difference.
Hmmm. I just remembered. I was an admin briefly on a VB4 forum. Just long enough to install mods for the owner, and chat a little in the staff room. I guess the main thing I noticed wrong was they wrecked the theme styling feature.
AdamD
Well-known member
I just upgraded our ageing forum to VB4, but we waited 2 and a bit years, because VB4 was inferior as a product compared to VB3.
So far, it's "ok", certainly nothing ground breaking, but we updated basically because VB3 is now end of life
I have no knowledge of CSS/Html, but I Was able to convert our heavily styled theme to VB4, which wasn't easy, let me tell you hehe
http://www.uoforums.com/forum.php
But, we won't be upgrading to VB5.
So far, it's "ok", certainly nothing ground breaking, but we updated basically because VB3 is now end of life
I have no knowledge of CSS/Html, but I Was able to convert our heavily styled theme to VB4, which wasn't easy, let me tell you hehe
http://www.uoforums.com/forum.php
But, we won't be upgrading to VB5.
hawker
Member
I had been considering xenforo for a while, but wasn't really keen on changing over. Mainly because I remembered when I moved from SMF to vBulletin with impex and it was painful in more ways than one. After the waste of time that vB 4 turned out to be - and after the demo was released of vB 5, I couldn't jump ship fast enough.
vB used to be the best. Nothing could touch it, but now, I can see why people are even considering going back to PHPBB.
vB used to be the best. Nothing could touch it, but now, I can see why people are even considering going back to PHPBB.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
vB3 was the best (that's when Kier and Mike of Xenforo worked there)
I'd probably cool my heels and stick with what you got for 6 months. Scope the landscape in the new year.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
This is reposted (without permission) in it's entirety from AdminExtra.com.
I thought this could promote some discussion about vB5 details .... for those with and in depth knowledge of php.
AdminExtra.com vB5 review by rafio.
=== repost below ======
So I looked into PHP errorlog then into its files and I saw... I dunno how to call it? Massive pile of dung?
It looks to me that vB5 code has been writen by guys who only just recently started learning PHP. No matter which file I open, I am suprised by some poor code that was written by amateour who had no idea, experience or knowledge of solution of problem at hand. IPB 2.0 that was released back in 2004 is years ahead of vBulletin 5 code.
Centralised input processing in vB5 is non-existant. Every sane application has some middleware between your application and request's GET and POST variables... but this is not sane application. This is "write boilerplate(boilerplate($_REQUEST['meh']), boilerplate, boilerplate::boilerplate(boilerplate->boilerplate())) every time you process request" type of application.
Their way of calling model?
What about $api->get('content_attach')->upload($_FILES['file'])? Oh... right, I forgot that knowledge of PHP and design patterns.
Dependency Injection?
How about service container?
phpDoc, php standard for documenting code by comments?
Notexistant.
Unified coding standard?
None. *(and btw, last one is not correct phpDoc method documentation)
Tons of testing code commented out?
Present!
Routing-aware links builder?
And to think Django is seven years old now and has this feature since beginning.
Separation between business logic and presentation?
This code could be allright if it was html version aware... which its not, it generates XHTML.
Lots of evals?
Lots'a evals.
Modern object-oriented code?
(This one would require me to overstep bounds of quote to prove to those who dont have access to vBulletin code so you have to give me credit of trust.)
vBulletin 5 codebase is neither modern or object-oriented. Best way to descibe this code is to call it php 4 without reference assigment ("&=") operator. Code in "include" directory is object-oriented (it even follows PSR-0 standard!), however majority of it looks more like set of functions that were put together in single container for easier access via autoloading than real objects. On opposide side of spectrum you have "core" directory which is procedural. Why? Who the hell writes "MVC" code (I am generous here) then goes "screw it, we will keep busines logic in procedural files"?
From reading their code I am getting idea that it was writen by people who adressed programming issues by mimicking other people code. They wanted "smart" way of handling data manipulation so they propably took idea from IPB's 2.3 API's. They wanted smart autoloading so they propably looked up xF's (and by proxy Zend Framework) PSR-0 implementation. They wanted to write OOP code, but they didnt know what that really means so they packed their functions together in classess. They didnt had time to learn of flaws in PHP string manipulation functions which would force them to write input middleware and sanitize it for stuff like null bytes. They didnt know php5 has mb_string as standard lib for working on multibyte strings to they writed their own vb5_String class. Everybody has Auth class but they couldnt understand why one uses auth class in code so they made their own vb5_Auth which does nothing besides setting cookies on user's sign-in and returning redirect link after successful sign-in. There is no logic in this class.
I see no greater scheme of things in vBulletin 5. By looks of code I can say that it was writen by group of programmers who had no workflow organisation, project plan and very different (usually low) skill levels. Lots of code was writen in hopes for best and without any backup plan. In many places they are using $_REQUEST variables without checking if those exist. If they do, its great. If not... well, depending on your php.ini and error_reporting PHP wont complain... unless its to php error log which eventually will be flooded with interpreter notices.
If I was to use vBulletin 5 code as benchmark of IB capabilities, I would make sure this company never gets any money from me and would stay off from their products. Internet Brands is network counterpart of '96s Bethesda software (Google Buggerfall if you care). I see no care about product quality in IB work, only rush to people wallets packed in corporate marketing.
Finally this code also makes IB claims that xF "stands on the shoulders of more than a decade of development by Jelsoft" laughtable. Decade of development and best you could do is this pile of crap? You really have balls to rip people off like that.
Really, vBulletin 5 feels like aftertime project of some amateur who was using old PHP tutorials as source of knowledge, NOT corporation-backed product aimed to compete on market... and this is happening in 2012,l five years after Zend Framework 1.0 was made avaiable to the public.
What a disaster, I cant even find a words to describe this situation.
rafio.
I thought this could promote some discussion about vB5 details .... for those with and in depth knowledge of php.
AdminExtra.com vB5 review by rafio.
=== repost below ======
rafio said:
So I looked into PHP errorlog then into its files and I saw... I dunno how to call it? Massive pile of dung?
It looks to me that vB5 code has been writen by guys who only just recently started learning PHP. No matter which file I open, I am suprised by some poor code that was written by amateour who had no idea, experience or knowledge of solution of problem at hand. IPB 2.0 that was released back in 2004 is years ahead of vBulletin 5 code.
Centralised input processing in vB5 is non-existant. Every sane application has some middleware between your application and request's GET and POST variables... but this is not sane application. This is "write boilerplate(boilerplate($_REQUEST['meh']), boilerplate, boilerplate::boilerplate(boilerplate->boilerplate())) every time you process request" type of application.
Their way of calling model?
Code:
$response = $api->callApi('content_attach', 'upload', array('file' => $_FILES['file']));Dependency Injection?
Code:
$api = Api_InterfaceAbstract::instance();
$config = vB5_Config::instance();phpDoc, php standard for documenting code by comments?
Code:
/**Upload a photo. Return an edit block and the photo URL.
*
**/Unified coding standard?
Code:
/**Upload a photo. Return an edit block and the photo URL.
*
**/
...
/** This method uploads an image and sets it as the logo in one step **/
...
/**
* @static
* When current lang charset isn't the one in http content_type header
* this method will convert All Ajax $_POST data into current language charset
*/Tons of testing code commented out?
Code:
//echo "Logged into facebook<br />\n";
...
//$returnValue = array('error' => 'Invalid AJAX method called');
...
// $page['searchJSON'] = $info['searchJSON'];
// $page['searchJSONStructure'] = $info['searchJSONStructure'];
// $page['error'] = $info['searchJSONStructure']['error'];Routing-aware links builder?
Code:
header('Location: ' . vB5_Config::instance()->baseurl . '/register');Separation between business logic and presentation?
Code:
if ($storecssasfile)
{
foreach($this->pending as $css)
{
$replace .= '<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="' . htmlspecialchars($vbcsspath . $css) . "\" />\n";
}
}
else
{
$joinChar = (strpos($vbcsspath, '?') === false) ? '?' : '&';
$replace .= '<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="' .
htmlspecialchars($vbcsspath . implode(',', $this->pending)) . "{$joinChar}ts=$cssdate \" />\n";
}Lots of evals?
Code:
eval(standard_error(fetch_error('searchnoresults', $displayCommon)));
...
eval('$faq[\'text\'] = "' . replace_template_variables($text) . '";');Lots'a evals.
Modern object-oriented code?
(This one would require me to overstep bounds of quote to prove to those who dont have access to vBulletin code so you have to give me credit of trust.)
vBulletin 5 codebase is neither modern or object-oriented. Best way to descibe this code is to call it php 4 without reference assigment ("&=") operator. Code in "include" directory is object-oriented (it even follows PSR-0 standard!), however majority of it looks more like set of functions that were put together in single container for easier access via autoloading than real objects. On opposide side of spectrum you have "core" directory which is procedural. Why? Who the hell writes "MVC" code (I am generous here) then goes "screw it, we will keep busines logic in procedural files"?
From reading their code I am getting idea that it was writen by people who adressed programming issues by mimicking other people code. They wanted "smart" way of handling data manipulation so they propably took idea from IPB's 2.3 API's. They wanted smart autoloading so they propably looked up xF's (and by proxy Zend Framework) PSR-0 implementation. They wanted to write OOP code, but they didnt know what that really means so they packed their functions together in classess. They didnt had time to learn of flaws in PHP string manipulation functions which would force them to write input middleware and sanitize it for stuff like null bytes. They didnt know php5 has mb_string as standard lib for working on multibyte strings to they writed their own vb5_String class. Everybody has Auth class but they couldnt understand why one uses auth class in code so they made their own vb5_Auth which does nothing besides setting cookies on user's sign-in and returning redirect link after successful sign-in. There is no logic in this class.
I see no greater scheme of things in vBulletin 5. By looks of code I can say that it was writen by group of programmers who had no workflow organisation, project plan and very different (usually low) skill levels. Lots of code was writen in hopes for best and without any backup plan. In many places they are using $_REQUEST variables without checking if those exist. If they do, its great. If not... well, depending on your php.ini and error_reporting PHP wont complain... unless its to php error log which eventually will be flooded with interpreter notices.
If I was to use vBulletin 5 code as benchmark of IB capabilities, I would make sure this company never gets any money from me and would stay off from their products. Internet Brands is network counterpart of '96s Bethesda software (Google Buggerfall if you care). I see no care about product quality in IB work, only rush to people wallets packed in corporate marketing.
Finally this code also makes IB claims that xF "stands on the shoulders of more than a decade of development by Jelsoft" laughtable. Decade of development and best you could do is this pile of crap? You really have balls to rip people off like that.
Really, vBulletin 5 feels like aftertime project of some amateur who was using old PHP tutorials as source of knowledge, NOT corporation-backed product aimed to compete on market... and this is happening in 2012,l five years after Zend Framework 1.0 was made avaiable to the public.
What a disaster, I cant even find a words to describe this situation.
rafio.
Above = shocking. I can see a guy trying to explain that at the desk of IB's fat cat CEO and then him giving a cool response 'ok, but can we make money off of it?'. And then they guy going 'I wouldn't recommend it' and then the CEO again 'I don't care, you sell this thing and quick because we're almost at the end of the 4th quarter and the numbers don't look good. Now get out of here! Oh and keep me updated on that senvoro thing ... guy: "XenForo?" -yeah that one, let the lawyers take good care of them!
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