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Not Planned Usergroup Promotion - need ability to change primary usergroup

Discussion in 'Closed Suggestions' started by MGSteve, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. MGSteve

    MGSteve Well-Known Member

    At the moment usergroup promotions can only add secondary usergroups, but we need it to be able to change the primary usergroup.

    What we want to do is set it up so that new members come into a probationary group, where by any new posts have to be moderated. When they have made sufficient posts, they then should automatically be promoted into the normal registered members group, by changing their primary usergroup.

    Currently this doesn't work as we can't change their primary usergroup via the UG promotions system.
  2. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Why not just set the Registered user group to be moderated and then promote to a secondary group which allows unmoderated posts?

    That's what I've done for signatures.

    The Registered user group should have the minimum permissions which you want all members to have.
    Then build on it using secondary user groups.
    audiokid likes this.
  3. MGSteve

    MGSteve Well-Known Member

    Because the way I've described gets nicely around the issue we had with not being able to move users between usergroups :(

    It mirrors how its setup in vB as well, which is really related to the above line I guess.

    Your system would work, but then we're left with the problem of moving users around within the usergroups, which thinking about it, may well be better done within vB as you can mass move users that way, its just a pain as I was trying not to have to setup a whole mirror vB site in order to do all this tidying before migrating the data over.

    Doing that though probably does make more sense in the long run & probably is the sensible option.

    I'd still like to see the ability to change the primary usergroup though, I'm sure it would be useful to do so.
  4. Robert F Schmitz

    Robert F Schmitz Well-Known Member

    Interesting so let me understand what you are saying Brogan. I should change my thinking that all user groups beyond the stock Registered are actually secondary meaning everyone would be a registered and others with the additional secondary grouping?
  5. MGSteve

    MGSteve Well-Known Member

    Think of it as a stack of stickle bricks.

    The registered usergroup is the main, big stickle brick which tells XF what they can and can't do. By default posts are added into the moderation queue, they can't use conversations, attachments or avatars.

    You then have a series of secondary groups, or smaller stickle bricks which you can use the promotion system to stick onto the primary group. So you may have one that is added on after 5 posts have been made which overrides the need for posts to be moderated. You then have another group, which gets stuck on by another promotion which overrides the ability to use conversations & so on.

    The main stickle brick, erm, sorry, Registered usergroup needs to deny access to the bits you want to override later, as you shouldn't use a usergroup to override with a negative - i.e. take abilities away - apart from using 'Never' which is abit dangerous as it can't be overriden, but useful I guess for groups used with the warning system, so you can take abilities away that other groups may have added.

    Does that make sense?
    Rob Fritz likes this.
  6. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    The Help Manual explains it fairly clearly but here's a real life example using signatures.

    I have my Registered group set up as follows:

    As you can see they can't edit signatures.

    I then have an Active user group set up like this:
    Anyone who is added to this group can now edit signatures, and I have set up a promotion to do so after 25 posts.

    I don't need to set any of the other permissions as they are inherited from the Registered user group.

    Permissions are cumulative, so I also have another group which has Edit custom title set to Allow (and everything else set to Not Set (No)), so anyone added to that group then gains that ability.


    It should be noted that there is no distinction or priority when it comes to the Primary and Secondary user groups; they all have equal weighting as far as permissions are concerned.

    Hopefully that helps to explain it.

    Further reading:
    Rob Fritz, Deebs and DSF like this.
  7. CyclingTribe

    CyclingTribe Well-Known Member

    Stacking the privs is quite a different, and potentially very useful, approach to what most of us are used to:

    Primary: Registered (with v.basic privs)
    Secondary: Allow sig + Allow avatar + Allow 50 PC recips + Allow custom title + Access to special forum + etc. etc.

    Quite good if you want to revoke specific privs from someone, such as removing their ability to post a signature (you just remove them from the Allow sig secondary group) - but can you promote to multiple secondary groups at once?

    Such as 25 posts adds you to secondary groups for sigs and avatar and custom title - all at once?

    Shaun :D

    NB: I'm still getting my head around the XF privs, but I think I'm slowly getting there ... it's just a different approach from the "specific usergroups for specific lumps of privs" - it's more granular, which is good - but does seem to still support the traditional "lumping" if that's what you prefer.
    Rob Fritz likes this.
  8. MGSteve

    MGSteve Well-Known Member

    I agree, it is a much better system when you get your head around it! With this in mind, we don't need to be able to override the primary group, but others may do.
  9. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Rob Fritz and GeeksChat like this.
  10. dieketzer

    dieketzer Well-Known Member

    yes, they can be a member of a dozen secondary groups, if desired.
    the system i have used for a year:
    registered: minimal perms. no perms i dont want a spammer to have.
    automated promotion to level 1 sec group: can have sig, 'like', change user title, open conversation with one recipient.
    automated promotion to level 2 sec group: can use member albums, moods, open conversation with 3 recipients, etc

    they stack on top of eachother. level 2 inherits all perms of level 1, then adds a couple and alters a couple.
  11. CyclingTribe

    CyclingTribe Well-Known Member

    Hmmm ... I might just have to re-think my privs for migrating CycleChat ... ;)
  12. Robert F Schmitz

    Robert F Schmitz Well-Known Member

    Me also. This is a different approach and I like it. Thanks Brogan for the 'real-life' example.
  13. Mr_Bob

    Mr_Bob Well-Known Member

    For myself, it would be really helpful if I could move the primary usergroup with promotions. Software such as Subdreamer tends to only take into account someone's primary usergroup, so if I wanted to promote someone to to a group where they say, no longer saw advertisements (not a purchased upgrade, just a sign of good will for activity) I would not be able to do so because Subdreamer only recognizes the primary usergroup, which I can't automatically change.

    I have my regular registered group. In (insert software) I can set the "registered" group to determine permissions for users in the primary group "registered" in Xenforo. This group in in the CMS software is set to see advertisements. The CMS software only recognizes primary usergroup. I have another group in both the software and Xenforo called "promoted" that someone gets put into after x number of posts, years registered, etc. I can promote them into the group as a secondary group currently, taking away advertisements within the forum, but I can not automatically have them moved into a primary group, meaning the CMS software is unable to see something changed-therefore the user still sees advertisements in the main website.

    Second Ex:
    Say for example you checked "Deny" for deleting posts/threads for the general registered group. You absolutely don't want anyone on that scheme being able to delete posts/threads. You decide, "OK, if they register with an email associated with my company, I want them to be able to delete their own posts/threads after they are active for a bit." So, I make a promotion to "Company" for everyone that has an @mycompany.com email, and they are added to the secondary group (their primary is not changed). I make a promotion that will add each user to another secondary group, "promoted", members are added to when they reach 50 posts and 90 days registered that has "allow" listed for deleting own threads/posts. OK, so everyone who did not register with a company email will be placed in the group, get a larger avatar size or something, but they won't be able to delete their own content because "Deny" was checked in their base group permissions. However, the folks who registered with my company were only added to the company group as a secondary group, so the base "Registered" group Deny for deletion still applies to them, and there is no way to automatically move them out of the primary group (or any secondary for that matter).

    For this same reason, I suggest that primary group change option be added to user upgrades as well. Just my two cents :).
    Tracy Perry likes this.
  14. shadoom

    shadoom Member

    sorry for the necrobump but thats exactly what i need
    i need "user upgrades" to change the primary group not only the additional one ;<
  15. CyclingTribe

    CyclingTribe Well-Known Member

    If you also want the same feature as someone else has suggested - "like" the first post so that when the XF team look for highly requested suggestions, it'll have a better chance of being reviewed. :)

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