Upgrading Centos 7? or waiting?

djbaxter

in memoriam 1947-2022
cPanel is recommending the following:

For customers currently running CentOS 7 or CloudLinux 7, we recommend upgrading to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, AlmaLinux 8, or CloudLinux 8.

For more information, please visit https://www.1.cpanel.net/e/871471/y...h=eupfLPa9zeDxiKi12Cj9f9Eu7BNNW9TB4kDZWE9ega8

I've been running Centos for years on a dedicated server with 3 forums and several WordPress installations.

I'm also aware that Centos 7 has a year or so to go before it stops receiving support so I admit I'm a little "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"..

My questions, for those of you running Centos 7,
  1. Have you already upgraded to Ubuntu or do you have plans in the near future?
  2. How much of a learning curve is there from Centos 7 to Ubunto 20? For example, does it change any of the commands in the cPanel Terminal app?
  3. For those not upgrading in the near future, do you plan to wait until Centos reaches final EOL with no support? If so why?
 
1.) If I would ever change to a non RH alike distro, it would be Debian and not Ubuntu. Because I like stability and Ubuntu is a Debian derative.

2.) However, if your a panel user, might not be a big difference. In terminal, yes there are some changes.
As for sysadmins, the commands are different, package manager is different, some things reside on different places or are named different.
Biggest pro for using Debian alike is that major version upgrades can be done and are officially supported.
Personally I like yum much better (also to exclude things is easier) than apt-get.

You people seem to totally forget about Rocky Linux. Rocky is also 100% compatible with Centos, and even one of the Centos founders is also working on Rocky.
So you can always choose between Rock and Alma Linux. Rocky is a bit more open source maybe, because Alma is supported by Cloudlinux. Not sure about that.

Which might be the biggest pro for Alma. A bigger company behind it, and if you ever want to decide to use Cloudlinux in the future, then Alma is the right choice.

For people rather not having a supporting company but more open source, choose Rocky Linux.

Both are 100% 1:1 Centos compatible.

There is ofcourse also Amazon and Oracle Linux. First one I don't know, the second one neither but als seems 1:1 compatible with Centos.

3.) We got 2 servers with Centos 7 and 1 server converted from Centos 8.5 to Alma 8.5 which went flawlessly.
As for the Centos 7 servers, we will keep them to short before the EOL. Why? Because we already have them a couple of years, the EOL date is in 2024. Probably we will get new servers at that time, and if we have to change systems anyway, we will install Alma on them at that time and spare us the extra work (and worries) now.

As for stability, hardly any difference as far as I know.
 
I talked to my host and they said that "CentOS Linux 7 will reach end of line on June 30, 2024, so you still have time" as it regards to changing.

They said they were recommending and supporting AlmaLinux.

When you sign up for a server it gives CentOS 7, CloudLinux, AlmaLinux, Debian, and Ubuntu as the OS options available.

I think I might hold out to the beginning of 2024. But I'm not sure yet.
 
Debating this topic now.

I ran the test script for the upgrade in cpanel and i have a lot of items that are not compatible.

I'm 50/50 just provisioning a new server from scratch and moving over to it instead of upgrading.
 
You people seem to totally forget about Rocky Linux. Rocky is also 100% compatible with Centos, and even one of the Centos founders is also working on Rocky.
So you can always choose between Rock and Alma Linux. Rocky is a bit more open source maybe, because Alma is supported by Cloudlinux. Not sure about that.

Rocky is owned by a single person whereas AlmaLinux is owned by a non-profit with a community-elected board. Now tell me which one is more open...

CloudLinux is just a financial sponsor, as are many others. CloudLinux has no direct control over AlmaLinux or its direction.
 
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I'm 50/50 just provisioning a new server from scratch and moving over to it instead of upgrading.

This is what we went with. Didn't fancy trying to unpick a failed upgrade. Ended up spending less on a more powerful server, more bandwidth, and had several weeks during the cross-over to get the build tested and tuned before moving everything over (smallest sites first). Also moved from cPanel to Plesk since we weren't offering hosting to any external clients, and pocketed the savings on that too.

The only downside so far has been an odd Plesk issue regarding Let's Encrypt, iPhones, SSL and email - where iPhones mail app doesn't see the renewal and fails to connect due to outdated SSL cert. Plesk say it's an Apple issue but we never had that problem when on cPanel.
 
CloudLinux has no direct control over AlmaLinux or its direction.
I don't think so, as it's the biggest sponser and as one of the biggest members of the foundation it also would have a say in things imho.
However, seems I was misinformed. Rocky is owned by the Public Benefit Corporation, but that again is owned by 1 man indeed.
So yes Alma is most likely more open source.
I already stated I was not sure that Rocky was a bit more open source. ;)
In fact I'm gald that Alma is more open source and I also prefer Alma by the way.

However I am sure both are 1:1 compatible with Centos, so both are good choices and I just wondered that Rocky wasn't mentioned at all.
 
The only downside so far has been an odd Plesk issue regarding Let's Encrypt, iPhones, SSL and email - where iPhones mail app doesn't see the renewal and fails to connect due to outdated SSL cert. Plesk say it's an Apple issue but we never had that problem when on cPanel.
I don't understand how that could not be an Apple issue. Its not like Plesk is actually holding on to expired certificates to serve out only to Apple devices. Odd for sure though.
 
This is what we went with. Didn't fancy trying to unpick a failed upgrade. Ended up spending less on a more powerful server, more bandwidth, and had several weeks during the cross-over to get the build tested and tuned before moving everything over (smallest sites first). Also moved from cPanel to Plesk since we weren't offering hosting to any external clients, and pocketed the savings on that too.

The only downside so far has been an odd Plesk issue regarding Let's Encrypt, iPhones, SSL and email - where iPhones mail app doesn't see the renewal and fails to connect due to outdated SSL cert. Plesk say it's an Apple issue but we never had that problem when on cPanel.
I hadn't considered moving off cpanel due to the ease of migration (cpanel to cpanel import process is pretty robust and stable from my past experiences).

What was your process? did you do a lot of manual work to create accounts and then restore filesystem and .sql import?

I have a LOT of set up between redis, elastic, s3 certs, ssl, email, etc that i would not like to spend too much time manually fixing if i can.

I'm certainly open to plesk as cpanel cost is outrageous now.

I'm waiting for @eva2000 to give it the blessing for Centminmod. Until then, I ain't movin.
yeah, been toying with Cent for years but never jumped on it due to lack of time/knowledge/ability to devote the effort to learning it.
 
I don't understand how that could not be an Apple issue. Its not like Plesk is actually holding on to expired certificates to serve out only to Apple devices. Odd for sure though.

We never had it happen over several years of using cPanel and Let's Encrypt. Three months after moving to Plesk (when the certs renewed) - poof, mail app on iPhones wouldn't authenticate anymore. Checked around and it only seem to affect servers. The fix seemed to involve asking end-user to install SSL Certs on their iPhones - NO THANKS! We got around it by using Outlook app, which doesn't suffer the same cert issues - so yes, perhaps an Apple issue of a sort, but why then didn't we have this with cPanel? Unless cPanel are doing something different?
 
I hadn't considered moving off cpanel due to the ease of migration (cpanel to cpanel import process is pretty robust and stable from my past experiences).

What was your process? did you do a lot of manual work to create accounts and then restore filesystem and .sql import?

I have a LOT of set up between redis, elastic, s3 certs, ssl, email, etc that i would not like to spend too much time manually fixing if i can.

I'm certainly open to plesk as cpanel cost is outrageous now.

Cost was a factor for us too; we'd gone with cPanel originally a few years ago because we were toying with offering micro hosting packages to our community members who wanted to put up really simple niche web pages, but ended up not bothering. However, we found cPanel really intuitive to use and stable so we stuck with it and got it on the next few servers as we upgraded.

When we were looking to move to AlmaLinux - and had decided on a new server instead of upgrading - we found a great offer which was a server with very similar specs to what we had, but around 65% of current cost - the only difference was Plesk instead of cPanel. We were a bit cautious at first, moving away to another management tool doesn't always work out for the best, but we were confident enough at the command line to consider it, knowing we could likely tweak it manually if it couldn't be done in Plesk's web UI. Also, we're no longer in a situation where you need to spend days fine-tuning a server, you can simply over-spec and do the basic tuning and it'll be pretty much fast enough for most of your visitors and members.

We did a lot of searching and reading beforehand to make sure that with Plesk we could install most of the packages we use, or if not, manually install/tweak what we needed - and that there was a migration tool from cPanel to Plesk (which worked really well) - and then ordered the server on the basis that if it didn't work out we could switch to cPanel and carry on regardless.

We got stuck in straight away adding/tweaking components until we had it pretty near our current server then moved the smallest of the sites we host onto the new server. Went without incident and the site worked great from the off. Moved a few more, and had a couple of little tweaks to do - related to WP plugins - but they went fine, no major disasters.

We left our biggest community until last and to our end users the migration was seamless (we closed the site, advised it was down for a short while for maintenance, and them moved it lock, stock and barrel to the new server without telling them). No one noticed! The only pointer came the next day when a few members pointed out it was responding more quickly than previously! 😉 They're still oblivious. (y):)

It took a bit of getting used to Plesk, and some things are done a bit differently, but crucially all the key basics were easily covered and for everything else there was a work-around.

I'd say community support isn't as good as cPanel but if you have some basic hosting/server management experience you should be fine.
 
I didn't realize there was a cpanel to plesk improter. That certainly changes things in it's favor. Thanks for the feedback, it sounds a lot like me. I've been on cpanel since like, 2001? 2? yeah, a long time!

Did you go with alma 8 or 9? @VBX Co
 
also did you use the webmin SE or a paid version?

edit, i have more than 3 domains so i have to go with web pro which is $20+ a month, compared to 27 for cpanel. not sure it's worth the 7/month difference.
 
I'm waiting for @eva2000 to give it the blessing for Centminmod. Until then, I ain't movin.
To AlmaLinux? The closed BETA has been working well for me so far. I'm sure you will see a general release before CentOS goes unsupported.
Right now, ES and I are battling on install. Follow the ES instructions and ES always fails to start with no real clear error WHY it failed to start.

<edit>
And ES was beaten into submission and is working fine, other than showing a yellow status since it is - currently - the only node of ES. I'm debating spinning another 2vCPU/2GB VPS instance up over on Hetzner just to play with having multiple nodes available of ES.. it's only about $6 a month to do so... and no, my site is nowhere big enough to "need" it... but playing is fun.
 
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To AlmaLinux? The closed BETA has been working well for me so far. I'm sure you will see a general release before CentOS goes unsupported.
Right now, ES and I are battling on install. Follow the ES instructions and ES always fails to start with no real clear error WHY it failed to start.

<edit>
And ES was beaten into submission and is working fine, other than showing a yellow status since it is - currently - the only node of ES. I'm debating spinning another 2vCPU/2GB VPS instance up over on Hetzner just to play with having multiple nodes available of ES.. it's only about $6 a month to do so... and no, my site is nowhere big enough to "need" it... but playing is fun.
Yeah, I know. I do have access to it. But according to @eva2000 its not exactly ready for primetime, so I'm not installing/updating it for any of my clients yet.
 
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