To allow delete or not allow delete?

PatriotGB

Active member
Arguments for and against allowing users to delete their own posts / threads?

I just had a member pitch a fit, stomping off and taking his ball with him. He deleted ALL of his posts. Perhaps a couple hundred.

So, it had me considering whether to impose a restriction on deletions.

Are there any legal considerations if the user considers his images and copy to be copyrighted? Can a user demand removal of his posts (if he cannot delete them)?

Thanks for the discussion!
 

Ingenious

Well-known member
Allowing this can cause carnage when members "rage quit" and remove older content. It can ruin threads and be very disruptive. You already know this however, from your post above.

I think it's better approached as a limited edit time (I allow 1 hour) which effectively allows deletion by blanking the post, this allows changes of mind immediately after posting but after that puts the decision in your own hands.

You can put in your forum terms that posts become a permanent part of the forum and cannot be deleted afterwards. You can still remove posts if there's a legitimate reason of course (here in the UK, some content might need to be removed or anonymised to comply with data protection laws).

For images, if someone uploaded an original image to my forum that they own the copyright to, and asked for it to be removed, I would do this.
 

PatriotGB

Active member
Allowing this can cause carnage when members "rage quit" and remove older content. It can ruin threads and be very disruptive. You already know this however, from your post above.

I think it's better approached as a limited edit time (I allow 1 hour) which effectively allows deletion by blanking the post, this allows changes of mind immediately after posting but after that puts the decision in your own hands.

You can put in your forum terms that posts become a permanent part of the forum and cannot be deleted afterwards. You can still remove posts if there's a legitimate reason of course (here in the UK, some content might need to be removed or anonymised to comply with data protection laws).

For images, if someone uploaded an original image to my forum that they own the copyright to, and asked for it to be removed, I would do this.

Great answer.

Is the limited edit time something I can set in the native XF2 software? Or an add-on?

Some forums have a limit on how many posts can be deleted per time period (1 hour, for example).

Thanks! I'd love to hear the opinions of others. I suspect they will mirror yours.
 

KensonPlays

Well-known member
I don't allow deletes, period, and I restrict edits to 1/2 hour after posting (due to a past experience). But see the post above for me for where that time limit is set in permissions.
I hadn't thought of setting a limit, but now I have it set to 1 hr by default, and once they reach the 100 posts mark, it extends to 90 mins, then at 500 2 hours, but then it stays 2 hours after.
 

Miri

Active member
If you're interested, read this excellent guide from @Slavik
 
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Mr Lucky

Well-known member
I'm in the U.S. :)
But unless you only allow US citizens to see your forum, then other jurisdiction laws can apply to your site. Like when you visit another country, their laws apply not US law.

Are there any legal considerations if the user considers his images and copy to be copyrighted? Can a user demand removal of his posts (if he cannot delete them)?
This would depend on your T & C. Mine include this;

You grant us the non-exclusive right to retain, move, edit or delete any content you post…

Note the word retain
 

PatriotGB

Active member
But unless you only allow US citizens to see your forum, then other jurisdiction laws can apply to your site. Like when you visit another country, their laws apply not US law.

I would respectfully ask that you provide legal proof of that. Citations or references. No other country has legal jurisdiction over my business or activities on U.S. soil. I am not in their country. I am not subject to their laws unless my activities are IN their country. I cannot help who receives my "radio signal," so to speak.

It would be impossible for me to restrict visitors to my site, that is on the "World Wide" WEB, from other countries.

That said... the subject matter of my forum is not likely to be of interest to anyone in any country other than the U.S.... except as a curiosity. :)
This would depend on your T & C. Mine include this;

You grant us the non-exclusive right to retain, move, edit or delete any content you post…
Mine has this (which came with the XF software. I haven't been able to figure out how to edit it.

All content you submit, upload, or otherwise make available to the Service ("Content") may be reviewed by staff members. All Content you submit or upload may be sent to third-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any Content that you consider to be private or confidential.
.....
We may remove or modify any Content submitted at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We may terminate your access to all or any part of the Service at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice.

You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content.
 

JRobert

Active member
Back to the original question, we allow users to soft delete or edit their posts for 20 minutes. After that they can ask Staff to edit or delete a post, but this doesn't happen very often. In fact, most users don't edit their posts even in the allowed time -- they simply post again with a correction. I have reminded people of the edit option several times, but they still don't edit posts.
 

KensonPlays

Well-known member
Back to the original question, we allow users to soft delete or edit their posts for 20 minutes. After that they can ask Staff to edit or delete a post, but this doesn't happen very often. In fact, most users don't edit their posts even in the allowed time -- they simply post again with a correction. I have reminded people of the edit option several times, but they still don't edit posts.
Could add an auto merge double posts addon, possibly.
 

Mr Lucky

Well-known member
I would respectfully ask that you provide legal proof of that. Citations or references. No other country has legal jurisdiction over my business or activities on U.S. soil. I am not in their country. I am not subject to their laws unless my activities are IN their country.
I believe it only applies to members who have registered. Here are a couple of references:


It is moot if all your site has no EO members, however I was thinking more about how GDPR did affect sites outside Europe and can be enforced via cross border cooperation of law enforcement and other authorities

Also see here: (though I imagine many more sites have now become compliant since 2018)


Hence it isn’t so much about you site’s “radio signal” but how you treat any EU citizen members' data. I was speaking about the technical possibility of enforcement rather than the likelihood of it happening.

So since GDPR many US sites have stopped their sites being accessed in the EU. Many media companies (e.g. Los Angeles Times)
blocked the EU until they got their sites compliant, many smaller ones still block the EU - presumably their minimal footprint means the cost or bother of becoming compliant is not worth it. See this is shown when you try to access:


IMG_4947.PNG


Mine has this (which came with the XF software. I haven't been able to figure out how to edit it.
So you are fine to retain (ie refuse to delete) members' posts (assuming they had the rights to the material they posted).
 
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duderuud

Well-known member
I tried to set a limited edit time. That works for a lot of posts but not all.

On our forum we have a lot of "central topics" where the first post is edited regularly. The limited edit time quickly caused problems so I disabled it...
 

Mr Lucky

Well-known member
Interesting stuff. Thanks for your reply.

Next question: How do we stop a site from being accessed in the EU?
I don't know with XenForo, but my wife does it on her Wordpress site via a geo type plugin. She does that not because of GDPR but because all digital downloads sold to EU have to charge and account for VAT at the rate of each country. Another annoying thing that is a regulation.

I am sure there is an addon for xenForo - some people do block certain countries for others reasons, e.g ones that seem to have a large number of spammers.

Actual GDPR data and privacy isn't that difficult as the link above to Slavic's guide shows.
 

PatriotGB

Active member
Actual GDPR data and privacy isn't that difficult as the link above to Slavic's guide shows.

I have no interest and will not comply with anything related to the EU. I'll just leave it at that. :) So, if there's a way to block EU visitors, all the better.

I would have thought it could be done at the server / hosting service / control panel level (rather than the forum platform software) I just looked and don't see anything there.
 

benFF

Well-known member
On our forum we have a lot of "central topics" where the first post is edited regularly. The limited edit time quickly caused problems so I disabled it...
You can use this mod to change the edit time limit for only first posts (including making it unlimited).

Works with the usual xF permissions, so you can set it per individual forum if you only want certain ones to be affected :)
 

PatriotGB

Active member
I don't know with XenForo, but my wife does it on her Wordpress site via a geo type plugin. She does that not because of GDPR but because all digital downloads sold to EU have to charge and account for VAT at the rate of each country. Another annoying thing that is a regulation.

I am sure there is an addon for xenForo - some people do block certain countries for others reasons, e.g ones that seem to have a large number of spammers.

Actual GDPR data and privacy isn't that difficult as the link above to Slavic's guide shows.

I just wanted to thank you for pointing this out to me. I did not know! And, I thought, "no way the EU can impose purview over my AMERICAN forum." I stand corrected!

So, I installed a "Geo-Block Registrations" add-on that automatically blocks registrations for the EU (and any other country I want). Beautiful! Potential problems averted! And I was able to implement this preventive measure early in the life of my forum.

The subject matter of my forum involves activities that are prohibited in most of those countries. So, it's not like I'm trying to attract international traffic or membership. No loss there. So, it's just easier to block them, if it would mean my forum would be subject to their regulations and impositions.

Thanks again!
 
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