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The importance of a smiley manager

Shelley

Well-known member
#1
Wow! You do not fool around when it comes to smilies. Remind me to never come between you and a yellow happy face. :)
I find it interesting to sit back (from a very long distance, mind you ;)) and just observe what vB as a company is going through right now. I can just imagine whats happening behind closed doors.
I think your looking at this from an image purely basis, a happy face superficial thing on my part, I'm not knocking you for it this is how most people see it and understandable. You have to remember smilies are just the final output, this is what most people just don't grasp. The smiley manager feature backend and frontend is a feature just like anything else and that is the biggest mistake developers make by looking at it as being insignificant so to speak, or just think that a oppup window or dropdown menu will suffice. I have proposed a mockup, idea sheet of what I would like to see being taken seriously by a company (I'm not saying xenforo isn't, I think they'll be the first forum product to give us what we want with regards to a smiley manager) I'm saying that because no company has introduced a smiley system that oozes usability, good, efficient layout structuring, frontend category navigation untilising space. I'm looking at the bigger picture from a person who still thinks an innovative (common sense built) smiley manager is greatly needed.

Trust me, if xenforo ever does implement the kind of smiley manager I envision it'll blow your socks off. You'll never want to use popups, dropdown menus to get to your smiley listings. I would say my idea does kill 2 birds with one stone, but it kills a whole flock. ;)
 

Trip

Active member
#2
I think your looking at this from an image purely basis, a happy face superficial thing on my part, I'm not knocking you for it this is how most people see it and understandable. You have to remember smilies are just the final output, this is what most people just don't grasp. The smiley manager feature backend and frontend is a feature just like anything else and that is the biggest mistake developers make by looking at it as being insignificant so to speak, or just think that a oppup window or dropdown menu will suffice. I have proposed a mockup, idea sheet of what I would like to see being taken seriously by a company (I'm not saying xenforo isn't, I think they'll be the first forum product to give us what we want with regards to a smiley manager) I'm saying that because no company has introduced a smiley system that oozes usability, good, efficient layout structuring, frontend category navigation untilising space. I'm looking at the bigger picture from a person who still thinks an innovative (common sense built) smiley manager is greatly needed.

Trust me, if xenforo ever does implement the kind of smiley manager I envision it'll blow your socks off. You'll never want to use popups, dropdown menus to get to your smiley listings. I would say my idea does kill 2 birds with one stone, but it kills a whole flock. ;)
Everybody has things that they value as important. I think it's great you value and feel strongly about such subject and the way you are able to give your opinion with such passion. I do use smilies, they are a great way to convey body language. However, I do find them distracting but again they do have their place.
 

Shelley

Well-known member
#3
I think it's great you value and feel strongly about such subject and the way you are able to give your opinion with such passion.
This is nothing compared to what Peggy will say when she reads this and makes her feelings known about smilies. :LOL:

But your right, I don't see these as a high priority for the devs which is why I've posted mockups, posted why i think they'll work and left it at that so it's down to them at their own leisure as there's definitely more pressing features to focus on I will agree.

Back On-topic: <insert company name here>
 

Kim

Well-known member
#4
I think your looking at this from an image purely basis, a happy face superficial thing on my part, I'm not knocking you for it this is how most people see it and understandable. You have to remember smilies are just the final output, this is what most people just don't grasp. The smiley manager feature backend and frontend is a feature just like anything else and that is the biggest mistake developers make by looking at it as being insignificant so to speak, or just think that a oppup window or dropdown menu will suffice. I have proposed a mockup, idea sheet of what I would like to see being taken seriously by a company (I'm not saying xenforo isn't, I think they'll be the first forum product to give us what we want with regards to a smiley manager) I'm saying that because no company has introduced a smiley system that oozes usability, good, efficient layout structuring, frontend category navigation untilising space. I'm looking at the bigger picture from a person who still thinks an innovative (common sense built) smiley manager is greatly needed.

Trust me, if xenforo ever does implement the kind of smiley manager I envision it'll blow your socks off. You'll never want to use popups, dropdown menus to get to your smiley listings. I would say my idea does kill 2 birds with one stone, but it kills a whole flock. ;)
Couldn't agree more Shelley, developers constantly undervalue the role of smilies on forums... they might not be important on Tech or geek forums, (although I have seen them used extensively on such forums) but they are hugely important to all of the forums I have had access to over the years.

Try taking smilies away or removing them.. you will have open anarchy within minutes.

IPB had shocking smilie back end when we first moved to it, and we nagged and nagged along with others until the finally saw the light (somewhat) and put in an uploader, the ability to bulk import via XML and some other cool smilie handling features.... the front end on IPB however is shyte, and has never been taken seriously.

I am also hoping that Xen is the first forum software to seriously look at this as not just an after thought nicety, but a critical part of the overall UX .
 

Peggy

Well-known member
#5
Couldn't agree more Shelley, developers constantly undervalue the role of smilies on forums... they might not be important on Tech or geek forums, (although I have seen them used extensively on such forums) but they are hugely important to all of the forums I have had access to over the years.

Try taking smilies away or removing them.. you will have open anarchy within minutes.

IPB had shocking smilie back end when we first moved to it, and we nagged and nagged along with others until the finally saw the light (somewhat) and put in an uploader, the ability to bulk import via XML and some other cool smilie handling features.... the front end on IPB however is shyte, and has never been taken seriously.

I am also hoping that Xen is the first forum software to seriously look at this as not just an after thought nicety, but a critical part of the overall UX .
I could not agree more. On every site I've ever run, smilies were hugely important. They always have been since their inception, and always will be, imo. I'm lost without a smiley manager, and really hoping that Kier and Mike are reading the messages we keep posting about this.

Smileys are not, and should never be thought of as, an afterthought.
 

Peggy

Well-known member
#6
Everybody has things that they value as important. I think it's great you value and feel strongly about such subject and the way you are able to give your opinion with such passion. I do use smilies, they are a great way to convey body language. However, I do find them distracting but again they do have their place.
This is nothing compared to what Peggy will say when she reads this and makes her feelings known about smilies. :LOL:
heheh you know me only too well Shelley!
I have no idea how I missed this particular conversation, but let me tell you, I am passionate about smileys. I use them extensively, as you know if you follow any of my posts. Smileys are an important part of a forum community. They help to convey thoughts, feelings, and ideas, whether they are funny, serious, or stupid.

Every site I've ever run has relied heavily on smilies. I bet if you run a poll asking people how important smilies are to them and their websites, you'd be very surprised (altho I wouldn't be). It's one of the reasons Shelley's smilies are so popular and used so widely, on many different forum scripts.

Ok I'm finished, lol.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
#7
heheh you know me only too well Shelley!
I have no idea how I missed this particular conversation, but let me tell you, I am passionate about smileys. I use them extensively, as you know if you follow any of my posts. Smileys are an important part of a forum community. They help to convey thoughts, feelings, and ideas, whether they are funny, serious, or stupid.

Every site I've ever run has relied heavily on smilies. I bet if you run a poll asking people how important smilies are them them and their websites, you'd be very surprised (altho I wouldn't be). It's one of the reasons Shelley's smilies are so popular and used so widely, on many different forum scripts.

Ok I'm finished, lol.
Saying that, there were no smilies in this post.

I am highly disappointed in you.
 

EQnoble

Well-known member
#11
Smileys are used EVERYWHERE...they also save a lot of typing and reading time so that the time can be used for informative content. When I talk to someone I want them to smile when I make them happy. A forum being the virtual instance of a towns community center makes smileys a pretty valuable asset.

People like to express themselves and some simply do not feel comfortable wording how they feel...just as some people are not good at vocally expressing emotion. Smileys allow a simple image to act as a gesture. It just makes perfect sense to add a full on smiley manager. I myself have no problem expressing what I feel with words at all, but sometimes a single gesture speaks volumes over a dictionary.

Making it faster & easier to display your emotional position in my opinion makes conversation that much more fluent and one more step closer to feeling like the person/persons I am conversing with is/are right there in the room with me which again in my opinion is the reason to use a forum instead of a blog which makes you feel like a spectator looking in rather than a forum community where everyone has a voice. Smileys online to me replace body language in face to face conversation. Because of the aforementioned, I support anything that makes them more of a pleasure to use.
 

Trip

Active member
#14
Couldn't agree more Shelley, developers constantly undervalue the role of smilies on forums... they might not be important on Tech or geek forums, (although I have seen them used extensively on such forums) but they are hugely important to all of the forums I have had access to over the years.

Try taking smilies away or removing them.. you will have open anarchy within minutes.

IPB had shocking smilie back end when we first moved to it, and we nagged and nagged along with others until the finally saw the light (somewhat) and put in an uploader, the ability to bulk import via XML and some other cool smilie handling features.... the front end on IPB however is shyte, and has never been taken seriously.

I am also hoping that Xen is the first forum software to seriously look at this as not just an after thought nicety, but a critical part of the overall UX .
LOL you girls make me laugh. People visit your site for content. If you remove the smilies and people stop coming, well you have something wrong with your community. Obviously, your niche plays a bit, IE: if you're running a smilie design site you probably don't want to kill off that part. I do use them myself from time to time, there is a time and a place for them. It's probably just my outlook, I visit business, news, oil industry safety, mechanical type sites and they are smilie-less. If I am reading an article about an industrial fire where a number of employees were injured, the last thing I need to see is some little yellow face crying, it's simply not professional. My opinion is they have a place but should not be a defining aspect for a majority of sites.
I visited vBulletin.com last night (I could have tapped out the entire drum solo of Led Zeppelin's Moby **** by the time it loaded) and studied their new editor. Then I went and looked at PHPBBs, SMF, IBP, etc...I looked at a number of them. I know some people have expressed a dislike for xF's current editor, I don't really have an issue with it. The same as I never had an issue with any of the other forum editor, including vB's previous design, or any of them for that matter. Hopefully, this isn't the feature that vB is going to hang their hat on that will help them bring some business back.
 

SilverCircle

Well-known member
#16
I know of at least one cycling forum that imploded because the owner removed all smilies.
Like Trip said, it depends on the scope of the site.

Smilies (and especially the way they are used by many) do have the potential to harm the professional look and feeling of a site. I know quite a few forums where no graphical emoticons are allowed and it perfectly fits the environment. Nobody ever complained or brought up a thread begging for a "cry" smiley.

However, this is all about a forum software and smilies are an essential feature of any forum software. As long as they are optional and I can disable them, it's ok. For those who want to run forums just for fun or do not have issues with smilies, a good smiley management can be an important feature. It's definitely something a forum developer cannot ignore.
 

dieketzer

Well-known member
#17
one of the very fist things members started demanding on my fresh xf install was more smilies.
once i forgot to reapply happy place after an update and the first feedback i got was 'the new smilie thingo sucks. we want the old one back'.
 

Peggy

Well-known member
#18
LOL you girls make me laugh. People visit your site for content. If you remove the smilies and people stop coming, well you have something wrong with your community. Obviously, your niche plays a bit, IE: if you're running a smilie design site you probably don't want to kill off that part. I do use them myself from time to time, there is a time and a place for them. It's probably just my outlook, I visit business, news, oil industry safety, mechanical type sites and they are smilie-less. If I am reading an article about an industrial fire where a number of employees were injured, the last thing I need to see is some little yellow face crying, it's simply not professional. My opinion is they have a place but should not be a defining aspect for a majority of sites.
I visited vBulletin.com last night (I could have tapped out the entire drum solo of Led Zeppelin's Moby **** by the time it loaded) and studied their new editor. Then I went and looked at PHPBBs, SMF, IBP, etc...I looked at a number of them. I know some people have expressed a dislike for xF's current editor, I don't really have an issue with it. The same as I never had an issue with any of the other forum editor, including vB's previous design, or any of them for that matter. Hopefully, this isn't the feature that vB is going to hang their hat on that will help them bring some business back.
They did say that sites in some niches would, of course, not use smilies. We also didn't say people would stop coming if they were removed, lol. However, people enjoy using them, so they are there, and they are popular. All we are asking for is a professional smiley manager, so that our members have the smilies available that they like to use, and so that we can manage them easier.

And of course, people do come to a site for the content. Additionally, many people use smilies to help convey what they're trying to say, or to express a particular emotion, which is, many times, difficult to do in type.

This editor doesn't bother me in the least, but I know that some members really dislike it.
 

Kim

Well-known member
#20
LOL you girls make me laugh. People visit your site for content. If you remove the smilies and people stop coming, well you have something wrong with your community. Obviously, your niche plays a bit, IE: if you're running a smilie design site you probably don't want to kill off that part. I do use them myself from time to time, there is a time and a place for them. It's probably just my outlook, I visit business, news, oil industry safety, mechanical type sites and they are smilie-less. If I am reading an article about an industrial fire where a number of employees were injured, the last thing I need to see is some little yellow face crying, it's simply not professional. My opinion is they have a place but should not be a defining aspect for a majority of sites.
Gods.. where to begin with this sexist little piece.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being "girls" The biggest and loudest complainers when we changed smilies one time on our tech site were men!

I specifically said that smilies might not be important to Tech or Geek sites (clearly you only visit such sites) and yes it can distract from anything serious. But I put it to you that the amount of "Forums" that are super-serious-boring-no-smilies-allowed-or-you-might-actually-enjoy-yourself-and-that-is-NOT-ALLOWED-here!!! Kind of sites is probably the vast Minority, not at all the Majority.

The sites I have owned or helped admin over the years that form the basis of my years of experience range from Technical Programming sites through to Company sites, chat sites and many serious hobby sites for both men and women, I can tell you from my experience that every single one of them used and loved the smilies, and most were begging for more smilies, some even pay to have specialist smilies made for their particular area of interest.

Forums are predominately not news sites, so your examples are spurious, nor are they dry boring content only sites, websites serve that purpose so much better... the very nature of forums is that they are communities of people often with a common interest, and often a huge part of what makes them successful is the interactions of the members, and the sense of community they build, a key part of which is the communications between members.. such communications are greatly aided by ...... you guessed it.... Smilies!

:)

The fact you see no purpose or value in smilies doesn't make your viewpoint valid for the vast majority of Forums, and of Admins...... regardless of gender :)

Like Trip said, it depends on the scope of the site.

Smilies (and especially the way they are used by many) do have the potential to harm the professional look and feeling of a site. I know quite a few forums where no graphical emoticons are allowed and it perfectly fits the environment. Nobody ever complained or brought up a thread begging for a "cry" smiley.
Not a site I would ever visit, I find the more "professional" a forum site touts it's self as being the more it is run by a humourless self important dictator. But of course, each to their own :) I won't be out there lobbying for all sites to have to have smilies, or insisting that anyone holding the opinion that smilies are frivollous or "girly" be hung drawn and quartered... just so long as equally I am not disrepected for my viewpoint which is well thought out and well researched over years of experience, and is not based on my reproductive organs.

However, this is all about a forum software and smilies are an essential feature of any forum software. As long as they are optional and I can disable them, it's ok. For those who want to run forums just for fun or do not have issues with smilies, a good smiley management can be an important feature. It's definitely something a forum developer cannot ignore.
Exactly :)