The Demise of the United States is Inevitable

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jasetaro said:
This is an important point... even if we confiscated 100% of the wealth of this nations billionaires it's wouldn't cover this year budget deficit!
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We can not tax our way out of this mess
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Major tax increase are essentially mandatory.
Closing the tax loopholes installed by Bush et. al. would be the equivalent of increasing taxes.

75% of the budget is: Social Security, Defense, Unemployment, Medicare, Medicaid
Those will be hard to cut.
2010.US.Federal.budget.webp
 
The US has the largest and most technologically powerful economy in the world, with a per capita GDP of $47,200.

GDP $14.66 trillion
Debt $13.98 trillion

Budget:
revenues: $2.0 trillion
expenditures: $3.4 trillion
deficit: $1.4 trillion

Plan 1: raise taxes to pre-Bush levels + cut Defense.
(A) raise taxes to how they were in 2000 (Pre George Bush)(5% tax increase)
- Tax Burden was 29% in 2000. Tax Burden was 24% in 2011.
= 733 billion.
(B) cut largest discretionary spending (Dept of Defense)
= 663 billion.
Deficit eliminated.
 
Digital Doctor said:
Major tax increase are essentially mandatory.
Closing the tax loopholes installed by Bush et. al. would be the equivalent of increasing taxes.

75% of the budget is: Social Security, Defense, Unemployment, Medicare, Medicaid
Those will be hard to cut.
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Look, this is simple math... The President's budget calls for roughly $2.7 trillion in revenue and $3.7 trillion in expenditures, the republican plan is just as ridiculous. It calls for roughly $2.5 trillion in revenue and $3.5 trillion in expenditures. We can't raise taxes enough to close that gap much less pay down our $14.2 trillion dollar debt. We have to cut spending drastically, that means we're going have to cut defense spending and make real entitlement reforms. Both sides are going to have to give up their sacred cows, we don't have a choice anymore, our current spending levels are simply unsustainable.
 
Let's split it down the middle.

Reduce the deficit to zero by:
50% more revenue (close loopholes, increase taxes)
50% reduced spending

or
75% more revenue = Raise taxes to how they were in 2000 = 733 billion.
25% reduced spending (split it evenly from: Social security, Defense, Medicare/Medicaid).
 
Here's the Budget.

I think it is quite incendiary to break up spending as Mandatory / Discretionary
As the largest discretionary item stands out - Department of Defense !

2010.United.States.Federal.budget.webp
 
Onimua said:
All we'd have is the same situation with different people. :rolleyes:

We'd need a different system entirely before that works.
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Not if we eliminate the scam known as baseline budgeting... From Citizen Against Government Waste:

"Baseline budgeting" is one of those Washington terms that sounds very dry and boring. In reality, baseline budgeting is one of the most sinister ways that politicians claim to cut spending when they are actually increasing spending. The Congressional Budget Office defines the baseline as a benchmark for measuring the budgetary effects of proposed changes in federal revenue or spending, with the assumption that current budgetary policies or current services are continued without change. The baseline includes automatic adjustments for inflation and anticipated increases in program participation. Baseline, or current services, budgeting, therefore builds automatic, future spending increases into Congress's budgetary forecasts.

Baseline budgeting tilts the budget process in favor of increased spending and taxes. For example, if an agency's budget is projected to grow by $100 million, but only grows by $75 million, according to baseline budgeting, that agency sustained a $25 million cut. That is analogous to a person who expects to gain 100 pounds only gaining 75 pounds, and taking credit for losing 25 pounds. The federal government is the only place this absurd logic is employed.

Politicians often like to have it both ways. Baseline budgeting gives politicians an opportunity to deceive taxpayers by allowing them to claim that they are holding the line on spending while providing more services.

Baseline budgeting seems like a technicality and should not be such a hotbed of contention, but every round of budget negotiations involves baseline budgeting with both sides of the aisle complaining that the other side is using the process to mask spending increases. Baseline budgeting is an issue that truly separates the deficit hawks from the budget chickens.

Eliminating the inflated budget baseline will force Congress to justify and account for increased spending instead of hiding behind automatic increases. Through commonsense accounting, taxpayers would learn that spending in Washington is not under control.
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The dirty little secret in this whole discussion is that Congress never actually cuts spending, all they ever do is reduce the rate growth that's already built into to the baseline... that's exactly what they did with the so called cuts in the debt limit deal they just agreed to. Spending is still going to go up, it's just going to go up less than would have otherwise. :rolleyes::mad:

The Wall Street Journal ran editorial on Gov. Andrew Cuomo's experience with baseline budgeting in New York. It's worth reading.
 

jasetaro said:
Look, this is simple math... The President's budget calls for roughly $2.7 trillion in revenue and $3.7 trillion in expenditures, the republican plan is just as ridiculous. It calls for roughly $2.5 trillion in revenue and $3.5 trillion in expenditures. We can't raise taxes enough to close that gap much less pay down our $14.2 trillion dollar debt. We have to cut spending drastically, that means we're going have to cut defense spending and make real entitlement reforms. Both sides are going to have to give up their sacred cows, we don't have a choice anymore, our current spending levels are simply unsustainable.
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What budget? This government hasn't had a budget for over 800 days. Its been running on continuing resolutions.

The math is pretty simple. If we take in $2.7 trillion and we're 14.2 trillion in debt. To pay off the debt in 10 years, the federal budget needs to be slashed to $1.28 trillion/year for 10 years. that means EVERYTHING needs to be cut 65%. Not doable right?

So lets tax the rich, make them pay more? You can tax everyone making more than $250K/year at 100% for the next 10 years and that doesn't wipe out the debt, but it will wipe out the economy. Not doable, right?

There is no way out of this mess. Critical mass has been reached. We have passed the tipping point. We have crossed the Rubicon. Game over. The end is inevitable, all that remains is the time it will take to get there.
 
Fred Sherman said:
What budget? This government hasn't had a budget for over 800 days. Its been running on continuing resolutions.

The math is pretty simple. If we take in $2.7 trillion and we're 14.2 trillion in debt. To pay off the debt in 10 years, the federal budget needs to be slashed to $1.28 trillion/year for 10 years. that means EVERYTHING needs to be cut 65%. Not doable right?

So lets tax the rich, make them pay more? You can tax everyone making more than $250K/year at 100% for the next 10 years and that doesn't wipe out the debt, but it will wipe out the economy. Not doable, right?

There is no way out of this mess. Critical mass has been reached. We have passed the tipping point. We have crossed the Rubicon. Game over. The end is inevitable, all that remains is the time it will take to get there.
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Right, I should have said proposed budget.
 
You want to know what a big part of the problem is in our country? We have elected representatives speaking of dissenting American citizens in this manner:

Vice President Joe Biden joined House Democrats in lashing tea party Republicans Monday, accusing them of having “acted like terrorists” in the fight over raising the nation’s debt limit, according to several sources in the room.
Biden was agreeing with a line of argument made by Rep. Mike Doyle (D-Pa.) at a two-hour, closed-door Democratic Caucus meeting.
“We have negotiated with terrorists,” an angry Doyle said, according to sources in the room. “This small group of terrorists have made it impossible to spend any money.”​

These idiots running this country over the cliff are insane!​
 
John said:
Vice President Joe Biden joined House Democrats in lashing tea party Republicans Monday, accusing them of having “acted like terrorists” in the fight over raising the nation’s debt limit, according to several sources in the room.
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Think that was bad ?
You should have heard McCain trash the Tea Party Hooligans.

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Actually, he is reading from the Wall Street Journal.
 
It's all about the entitlements in the long run. Unfunded Medicare liabilities are, according to the trustees, at $38 Trillion dollars (this figure is about half the amount in recent years, but it appears that the decrease is due to accounting tricks). The Medicare trust fund will be exhausted by 2024.

Yes, I am worried about the economic future of the US. But for the moment, US Treasuries are still the best game in town (and by town, I mean the world)....and because other nations own so many of them, they have to do their best to support the strength of the US economy. Including, perhaps, buying more to keep their investment safe. So, while it is bad that we have so much debt, we still are the strongest economy in the world. Doesn't mean that we can keep screwing up and spending more than we have. But, its not like there are many contenders to overtake us (European Union has its hands full with own problems and China has an export economy, without enough consumers to support their growth).
 
I said to my wife this morning, upon watching that the US had reached a decision to raise the debt ceiling another 3 trillion, which all this has done is delay the inevitable, that we need to make sure all our finances are in check constantly over the coming years, because it will only take 3 - 5 years, if that, for this new ceiling to be reached, and the same issues snowballing, and the effect the US economy collapsing has had upon the rest of the world is quite profound, especially in a country (Australia) that I am, which currently has the official most robust economical system in the world... and the US collapse has effected that enough to cause quite some disruptions here, even if much smaller than the US, still significant for the population comparison in size.

For all Australians, I would say, brace for impact in the coming years, more so than being experienced now.

Immigration is having a negative effect on our economy as well, with freeloading entitlements and the Government not being tough enough and cutting migration right back.
 
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