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Thank you.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by EQnoble, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    My thank you to these people.

    The folks in this video probably believe when someone says "your papers please" ...reply, show ME YOUR papers please...and I agree...one must be completely familiar with that which they enforce and it must be in writing. Show me your papers...lol...what an epic turnaround.

    And since when did the USDA have the right to make someone leave the state? I had to laugh at the notion of this.

    Code:
    § 412(a) Plant Protection Act (7 United States Code (U.S.C.) 7701 et seq.),
    
    the Secretary of Agriculture may prohibit or restrict the
    movement of interstate commerce of any plant or plant product, if the
    Secretary determines that the prohibition or restriction is necessary to
    prevent the dissemination of a plant disease within the United States.
    Under the Act, the Secretary may also issue regulations requiring plants
    and products moved in interstate commerce to be subject to remedial
    measures determined necessary to prevent the spread of the disease, or
    requiring the objects to be accompanied by a permit issued by the
    Secretary prior to movement.
    
    No where in there does it say that the constitution or the amendments can be violated in any way to achieve that end. With no probable cause, nothing in plain site, and in answer to the queries stated that they had no fruit so any further detaining would be a gross violation of standards even with the plant protection act in effect there is no authority.

    The following video shows how much resources get wasted for nothing...just think..checkpoint..all those cars wasting fuel by having to stop and go...the police officer who probably could have been pulling speeding people over or be in his car on call waiting for a real crime. Then we have people who obviously are not suited to inspect anything or know their arse from their elbow and we expect them to be able to tell by looking at a single orange if it is from a quarantine zone? Of course don't forget about lost time which is irreplaceable...and for what to try to stop a living entity from traveling in a car when it can travel by spores through the air in any place with humidity? Mind you it is not harmful AT ALL to humans.

    That's enough to detain someone?...a non lethal fruit??? LOL I could make so many jokes right here. Ahhem...anyways...

    Also much respect to that state trooper (I think that's what he was) for stating what he is and his primary focus...get the rv out of the line... after that saying they could talk about whatever over there out of the way...and while there was peace allowed the process to happen while he stood witness......need more officers like him.



    :D Finding this made my day today.
     
  2. Lucas

    Lucas Well-Known Member

    How much fail all together, but this type of things happen every where in the world. It's more like we need to step up and stop this idiot governments from doing stupid rules and allowing authorities to overuse their power for their emotions against us.
     
  3. turtile

    turtile Well-Known Member

    You have no idea how big of a deal plant disease can cause. The one disease you listed is only one small problem. Take citrus greening, a bacterial disease, for example. The only way to get rid of it is to burn the plant. I guess it is a joke to everyone but spreading a disease like that can prevent someone from making a living, make a bottle of orange juice cost $12...
     
  4. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    Well we have a lot of these diseases (or i should say plants are so vulnerable to them) because they mass produce the same strains over and over and they hardly evolve along with the diseases which are constantly evolving. When you mass produce plants and distribute the seeds you create a population that all has the same vulnerabilities there for you just made it a host.

    What they were being stopped for in the video was suspicion of having oranges that had SOS. That is it. That's what the guy referenced because of his license plate. Yes there are very harmful diseases...but if these farmers who operate like a factory instead of farm would stop cloning the same strain generation after generation they wouldn't have to worry so much about crop failure. The small farmers adapts...this is about big companies not wanting to have to deal with nature while they get rich off of it and using the USDA to try and enforce people not to mess with their system.

    Juice costing 12 dollars a bottle would be because of taxation in the end. Diseases are here and have been..probably longer than humans. You can't take away someones freedoms because of a spore on a fruit when almost all plant diseases are carried by wind, rain, insects and animals. It makes no sense and is complete bs. I can see stopping a truck full of fruit.....not a private citizen his girl and his RV.

    I don't huh?

    I may also say that you have no idea how a lot of diseases are spread.
    http://www.dpvweb.net/intro/index.php#transmit
    http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Activity Files/PublicHealth/MicrobialThreats/Almeida.pdf

    I do my homework and I am also a gardener who has worked on a farm in my life,,,,you should do your homework as well.
     
    Lucas likes this.
  5. turtile

    turtile Well-Known Member

    Do you really find it surprising that they found someone carrying a video camera and refusing to cooperate suspicious? They're just doing there job. How would you like it if people treated you like that at your job?

    Since the disease affects all types of oranges and tangerines, we wouldn't be able to grow any of those types of citrus. Citrus takes a long time to breed since it takes many years to produce fruit. The only way to stop the disease is to prevent any contact of the citrus would be completely impossible.

    It's apparent you don't. Why are you linking to vector-based transmission when the disease in question isn't spread by a vector? I also have a BS in Plant Science by the way.
     
    Jason likes this.
  6. Jason

    Jason Well-Known Member

    Except, CDFA does have the authority to reject any plant material suspected of harboring pests or disease. BPS inspectors have the authority to inspect both commercial and private vehicles (submission to such inspections is voluntary (though the inspector can prevent the vehicle and any commodities from entering the state upon refusal) , and violation is just a civil offense, though if you don't stop at the station its a criminal offense), and can reject or destroy any plant material that they believe presents a risk of pest or disease when entering the state. The Plant Protection Act does not prohibit states from passing more stringent laws, which is exactly what California has done.
     
  7. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    Yes I find it surprising....because i don't consider a camera a gun...also sorry circular logic doesn't work for me. Oh you don't have anything to hide...then you won't mind me searching....yeah ok gtfo WARRANT ...exactly why the cop left them alone. If what you are doing is legal you should have no problem with me recording it.

    Those checkpoints are for people shipping fruit not citizens with a lunchbox.

    And yeah my rights come before your job sorry if you felt different. And I have been recorded while working for an employer and can't do a damn thing about it also by University reps that were the effective job owner of the site.

    If I was to debate using your means I would simply answer with why your bringing up citrus greening when I wasn't talking about that. I made a general statement about disease being spread more so by things other than humans. For that matter what about diseases that start in the seed....there everything done at this checkpoint is wasted once a single seed makes it past (by the way seeds are not subject to quarantine at these stops) .

    This was a thread thanking people who have the same spirit that granted you a free place to live.
     
  8. Panupat

    Panupat Well-Known Member

    I kinda agree with turtile here. There's no reason to be a d*** and mess with the officers like that. Let them do their job and be done with it. The driver's only wasting everyone's time.
     
    Crazyfruitbat and Brett Peters like this.
  9. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    How is standing up for your rights being whatever word you wanted to say? A camera provides proof that what get's testified is the truth.
     
  10. Jason

    Jason Well-Known Member

    Exactly what rights though? He was asked to submit to an inspection and refused (and was pretty much a jerk about it, at that). That's fine, he doesn't have to agree to the inspection, but California law allows for an inspector not to release a vehicle if they suspect its in violation of agricultural laws. So yes, they could have refused the RV entry into the state, if this supervisor had actually been well versed in the CDFA code (sections 5341-5353 and 6301-6465).

    All this guy achieved was giving others a hard time, and delaying himself.
     
  11. Lucas

    Lucas Well-Known Member

    No, the lady decided she wanted to search them cause she felt annoyed and uncomfortable about her being recorded. I don't see what people are not seeing here, probably haven't taken the time to see what was recorded? Strange people these days, for real. One day crying about their oh so great america losing every single right of freedom and now it's all that they are doing it for us and whatnot. Meh, I just don't understand you people.

    Those videos are clear evidence of people with certain authorities going mumbo jumbo about it just cause they feel annoyed by what a citizen does when they talk to them. That's what I've always hated about America and one of the reasons I actually left, which is authorities there seem to think they are some kind of omnipotent gods and can do as they please when they please.

    /rant off.
     
  12. Jason

    Jason Well-Known Member

    "You people" ? I don't remember crying about anything recently, much less an erosion of freedoms, heh.

    For all we know, she may have planned to ask them to submit to an inspection whether they were recording or not. It actually would have been in her interest to just let the vehicle move along quickly if she wanted to put an end to the video recording. Most people don't like to be recorded by strangers anyway, so not surprised she would find it annoying. I also find it funny that they complain about their "rights" (though exactly what rights, I don't know) being violated, though they didn't have the basic courtesy or respect to simply stop recording her to begin with.

    No, what I fail to see is how being asked to submit to a lawful inspection violates their so-called rights, and then act shocked that they're being delayed when they start being jerks to the inspectors for doing their job.
     
    Panupat likes this.
  13. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    If not to stand corrected that applies to fruit they can see...being it a civilian transportation/rec vehicle with nothing in plain site and with the passengers confirming there is nothing, a basic inspection is done...that inspection does not waive your protection against unlawful search and seizure. We are talking about going into someones home on wheels ... the same applies for searches...warrant or probable cause. Nothing can trump a private citizens rights per the constitution. If I can be accountable for actions under a specific...I truly believe that you need to show me the law...that's what this citizen did.

    I don't think he was being a jerk at all....the person at the stand didn't know enough about the supposed law he was trying to enforce (mind you that he was a supervisor)...I am talking from a standpoint of someone who's life completely changed because of dirty people with power and their abuse of it. These are words from a man on his last steps after a decade of getting back what was taken from me by those who abused the powers of the tin on their chest.

    If you notice the officer stood back...because as an officer he understood what was really happening there. There was no longer a reason for suspicion once the people showed they were willing to talk it out. They said clearly...show me a warrant or the documentation that allows you to search my vehicle and you can. An inspection in this case is not a search as far as I am aware....it is supposed to be a cursory thing to stop people bringing in bulk vegetation the state doesn't want and not meant for a vehicle to be run through with a fine tooth comb...that's what happens when you see something suspicious in plain site or signs of nervousness...(shaking twitching, waving voice) With nothing suspicious in sight and the people clearly giving the message that we have nothing...let's keep it moving..I would figure that this should have ended in seconds not a half an hour. This is the way I understand the code as it was written like I said unless it can be explained better.
     
  14. Crazyfruitbat

    Crazyfruitbat Well-Known Member

    While I agree most checkpoints around the world (not just the US) are pretty much pointless (including the bomb ones at the airports- they never really check anything), but realistically they can't do nothing either and let plants move across borders, it's an important role and it has to be managed. ONE person brought Japanese knot weed to the UK, now it is killing all of the natural plant life there. It only takes one idiot.

    The fact that this guy had a video camera and recorded the whole thing just says everything about this person, a useless time waster and I can't help but think of him as being really pathetic.

    You can also shout all you want about the guy not knowing his job properly and that he should know exactly what is what, why the heck should he? They aren't exactly paying for higher educated folks here and having some idiot quote the constitution of rights to him is, of course, going to get that kind of reaction.

    I get narked when I see people go out of their way, just to piss other people off just because the constitution tells them that it's ok for them to do it. It's like the constitution is a get out of jail free card and because nobody knows it in THAT much detail, they can get away with being *******s. The rest of the world doesn't have any constitution of rights, they have these things called 'laws' which are much better defined, if this had been somewhere else this guy's attitude would not be tolerated and he certainly would not be allowed into the state. Yeah, I can see the Germans letting in all those Czech plants huh!

    If I was the police guy I would have just done him for obstruction of justice and maybe even breach of the peace if he was affecting others - that may even (at a stretch) also add to the 'probable cause' and get the van searched for being suspicious.

    It was just a pointless routine and they should let the courts settle it instead of some poor guy who is probably getting minimum wage, stuck in traffic fumes all day
     
    Forsaken, Kim, Panupat and 1 other person like this.
  15. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    So wait someone who carries a plant is an idiot ...but the guy who you say has this important job (the supervisor) isn't at fault for anything...and you think it is ok to slack because he makes minimum wage...no one made him take that job. If you really think that this is about giving someone hard time then you are just trying to make problems.

    He could not arrest him for obstructing justice because HE WASN'T plain and simple and for that matter you can't break a law to enforce another one. You also imply you don't like a waste of time yet you want to send a man to court to plead a case the courts have already defined...not to mention the courts are crowded enough. He did not obstruct anything. Look at the way the laws are written and you will understand that. Need proof...the officer in this case knew his place, his job, and that everything was civil so he let it play out...so I guess you are questioning authority yourself here and his judgement..that officer could have very easily said put down the camera...he didn't...he didn't even ask. He said I am giving you a direct order to move there....driver complied...officer says talk it out over there..they did.

    In the end I AM in the US and I do live by the constitution of the US... not another country with other "laws" as you put it...and in this country I was born with inalienable rights. You may consider protecting my rights a waste of time...but hey they are mine...and unless we are talking suspending the constitution I believe only an EO can override the constitution or court decisions based on interpretation. Either way for every person that doesn't stand up for their freedoms it's just one more person to pick up the slack for. I hope you do lose your freedom one day only so you can realize why it is important (you know the song...you don't know what you got till it's gone)...the world depends on it.

    Either way...this checkpoint is pointless unless they are checking EVERY VEHICLE seeing that one plant can cause a problem and wastes more than the 30 minutes this guy took to stand on the two legs he was given.
     
  16. dieketzer

    dieketzer Well-Known Member

    fruit quarantine and the like has been going on forever. its intended to protect a states livelihood.
    personally, i would be far more pissed off about this:

     
    EQnoble likes this.
  17. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    I am not against it if it does what it's purpose is ...by not treating all vehicles equally as possible transporters of these diseases they are basically just talking with a little show...they are not stopping anything. If it was equal for all you would not hear a peep out of me.

    And that video is just crazy...I wish I had more minutes of it for the context.
     
  18. dieketzer

    dieketzer Well-Known Member

    'This is the darnedest thing I think I've ever read about. So there's this town council meeting, right? At the end of last month in Quartzsite, Arizona. And during the public comment period, one woman stands up, is recognized, and proceeds to calmly make some statements that the council doesn't approve of. Some of the members of council order the police to arrest her in the middle of her commenting and escort her out of the council room. The town mayor,who is presiding over the meeting, objects insisting that the woman has the floor and is speaking within her First Amendment rights. Over his objections, the woman is arrested and removed anyway.
    You can hear the mayor asserting the fact that he is in charge of the meeting and explicitly ordering the officers not to remove the woman, but they still do. While being removed, the woman was injured, by the way.

    Well anyway, when that video hit YouTube, it went close to viral. How did the town Council react?

    They held an unannounced meeting last night (Sunday night), in which they declared a "state of emergency", removing the elected mayor's authority and placing the chief of police in administrative control of the town government, and closing future council meetings to public comment until such time as they decide the state of emergency is over.

    If this seems like a vast overreaction to you, there's some things you need to consider about why that mayor got elected. To whit:'

     
    EQnoble likes this.
  19. Lawrence

    Lawrence Well-Known Member

    We have similar rules in Canada too, province to province.

    Get on the ferry to Newfoundland and Labrador, and then immediately get back on to cross back to Nova Scotia. You can not get back on the ferry without going through the car wash. Your car is washed thoroughly on the outside and then inspected for plants and vacuumed out on the inside. You do not need to have this done, it is your choice. Though if you do not, your car stays in Newfoundland and Labrador.

    These "rules" may seem dumb to people, but they are in place to help stop the spread of diseases and insects to other areas. If more Countries had such rules in place and enforced them, then maybe there would be more farmable lands available.
     
  20. EQnoble

    EQnoble Well-Known Member

    WOW now that it is bad..I just read your post the link and some supporting articles.

    Thanks for following up.
     
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