So with Mandrill going premium, what are some alternatives?

Floyd R Turbo

Well-known member
All that is fine until it makes it to Microsoft. Then, it has nothing to do with the validity of an IP address or the website it originates from, if they think it remotely resembles spam, that's where it ends up. That's not reflected in any kind of stats because it doesn't get outright rejected. The sender is completely blind to classification as spam or junk because the sender domain/etc is all verified as "OK" by the recipient, but the content is spammy looking or junk looking so that's where it ends up.

Now, if there was a feedback system in place to let the sender know that "yes" your email was accepted as "real email" but then "we still think it's kinda spammy so we hid it from the recipient by stuffing it into a spam folder that they never check so nyaaa" that would be much more helpful.

Instead, people waste money thinking that any of these services will solve the problem. I'm saying that they won't...that's my experience.

I regularly have to tell people to look in their junk folders by sending a separate email from a different address that will hopefully not end up in spam itself. I can testify this this!
 

Sim

Well-known member
All that is fine until it makes it to Microsoft. Then, it has nothing to do with the validity of an IP address or the website it originates from, if they think it remotely resembles spam, that's where it ends up. That's not reflected in any kind of stats because it doesn't get outright rejected. The sender is completely blind to classification as spam or junk because the sender domain/etc is all verified as "OK" by the recipient, but the content is spammy looking or junk looking so that's where it ends up.

Now, if there was a feedback system in place to let the sender know that "yes" your email was accepted as "real email" but then "we still think it's kinda spammy so we hid it from the recipient by stuffing it into a spam folder that they never check so nyaaa" that would be much more helpful.

Instead, people waste money thinking that any of these services will solve the problem. I'm saying that they won't...that's my experience.

I regularly have to tell people to look in their junk folders by sending a separate email from a different address that will hopefully not end up in spam itself. I can testify this this!
Actually ... I find BT and related companies far worse! But yes, Microsoft are very difficult to deliver to.
 

Sim

Well-known member
What's BT refer to? I feel like I should know this lol
British Telecom ... largest Telco/ISP in the UK I believe?
  • btinternet.com
  • btconnect.com
  • btopenworld.com
I average between 3-5% bounce rate from these domains and significantly less from MS and Yahoo domains.

Actually AOL is pretty bad too - we went through a phase where no emails were getting through at all - currently around 4.5% bounce rate, although they don't tend to block like BT do.

Australia's Bigpond (Telstra) is also bad - worse than BT in many regards.
 

Floyd R Turbo

Well-known member
Ah, gotcha. Well again, bounce rate is measureable. Spam/junk treatment - as far as I know, there is no data for this. At least nothing anyone is sharing.
 

Sim

Well-known member
Ah, gotcha. Well again, bounce rate is measureable. Spam/junk treatment - as far as I know, there is no data for this. At least nothing anyone is sharing.
Well, some email providers/ISPs actually block your emails - so you generally get a "block" bounce notification from them.

I guess in many ways, Gmail's stats are very misleading - because they never block you, they just quietly put the emails in the spam folder and you're none-the-wiser.

So while on the surface BT/MS/AOL/Bigpond seem worse because of all the block bounce messages - at least you can measure progress. With gmail you've not really got much to go on ... although I guess you could track open rates, but that's not necessarily indicative of spam folder rates.
 

Sim

Well-known member
that won't work, you can't make an API call to get bounce notifications - they come in via an inbound webhook to your website.
Actually - FYI this is no longer true ... there is a Message Events endpoint you can query which gives you exactly the same data as the webhooks do - just not near-real-time (takes a minute or so for the events to show up) ... but that's good enough for most purposes.
 

Kintaro

Well-known member
Actually - FYI this is no longer true ... there is a Message Events endpoint you can query which gives you exactly the same data as the webhooks do - just not near-real-time (takes a minute or so for the events to show up) ... but that's good enough for most purposes.
I can see that info here:
https://api.sparkpost.com/api/v1/message-events/?events=bounce,out_of_band&from=2018-06-06T11:00
("from" is not mandatory)

In this way, a simple add-on could regularly check Message Events every 20/30 minutes and set User State accordingly.
 
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