poor, poor sony - hacked again

Karma's a b*tch...

Was there any doubt about after whole DRM Rootkit fiasco?
No.

Sony was cool back in the 80's and 90's. Lots of innovative and quality products. Nothing of the old Sony spirit is left today and if a company starts to treat their customers like potential criminals (that's exactly what they did with the rootkit affair), then what else can one expect from such a company?

And before the first one calls the PS3 innovative. Yeah, maybe. But 90% of it was engineered by IBM and nVidia, so the Oscar shouldn't go to Sony for this.

Ever since the rootkit fiasco, I carefully (and successfully) try to not spend a single cent on Sony products. This has 2 major advantages

a) it's efficient
b) it's perfectly legal (unless you "misunderstand" the don't pay part :) )

Hacking them might be efficient as well, but it's rarely perfectly legal and what the hackers forget is that they do not only hurt Sony but also millions of more or less innocent customers (this is probably not the intention, it's more like collateral damage, but still not a nice thing).

So while I do not like Sony, I do not advocate all the attacks, but they show in an impressive way, how little they care about security and their customers. Their arrogant attitude is finally falling back on them and that's what usually happens when you treat customers or other human beings in such a way.
 
All this probably can be traced back to when Sony pulled the 'Other OS' feature from the PS3 firmware. They really did shoot themselves in both feet and one arm with that. Way to go - wind up the hacker community.
The problem with that argument is that what prompted them to remove the OtherOS feature is the fact that someone was so genius that they thought it was a great idea to exploit a security hole and make it publically known. This same "genius" gave out information on how to do it, and then GeoHotz took it upon himself to open a can of worms. The rest is history.

People who make this same excuse that you're making right now - are stupid. I'm not saying you are, but in general - everyone thought it was Sony's fault to remove that OtherOS feature. Quite the opposite, actually.

Everyone loved the Ubuntu distro, so much that the system was left alone for a few years. I bet someone at Sony felt the same.
 
It is not illegal to mod your own property otherwise it is not really your property. The people who distribute the protected media are the only people if any that can be held accountable for anything at all. Just like my phone, just like my car, just like anything. If I mod something, it is my responsibility to use it wisely and legally.

I will have no problem with sony claiming a right to remove otherOS if they are willing to replace my discs when they stop playing. Then I won't need to back up my investment
some1.webp
 
I hope they put each and every one of them in jail. When you find a security leak, the thing to do is contact the company and point it out discreetly (for a fee if necessary), not to hack them and embarrass them in public while putting their customers at risk to other attacks. But that's just my take on it.
 
People who make this same excuse that you're making right now - are stupid. I'm not saying you are, but in general - everyone thought it was Sony's fault to remove that OtherOS feature. Quite the opposite, actually.
erm, as far as I know they simply removed it because Sony wanted to, not because of any exploit in it - would have been far easier to close the exploit than remove the Other OS completely.

As I said, I'm not excusing Sony, quite the opposite really. They bought it partly on themselves by making the system a hack target by people who simply wanted to run their own choice of OS on the hardware. Had Sony activiely encouraged this, then we could quite likely be looking at a totally different situation. Instead they chose to put up a 'wall' on the hardware which was then a red rag to the hackers who more than likely saw it as a challenge to knock down.

At the end of the day, I'm with you on this - whatever device I have, the manufacturer should not tell me what I can and can't run on it. If I want to install Linux on it, then I should be able to.

One reason why I don't by Apple products....

oh, thanks for calling me Stupid as well ;)
 
The problem with that argument is that what prompted them to remove the OtherOS feature is the fact that someone was so genius that they thought it was a great idea to exploit a security hole and make it publically known. This same "genius" gave out information on how to do it, and then GeoHotz took it upon himself to open a can of worms. The rest is history.

People who make this same excuse that you're making right now - are stupid. I'm not saying you are, but in general - everyone thought it was Sony's fault to remove that OtherOS feature. Quite the opposite, actually.

Everyone loved the Ubuntu distro, so much that the system was left alone for a few years. I bet someone at Sony felt the same.
The exploit that was being abused had to do with the developer network, not the Other OS feature.
 
The exploit that was being abused had to do with the developer network, not the Other OS feature.
That was in the GeoHotz situation. The early exploits caused the OtherOS removal. If you don't want to believe me, fine.

OtherOS Exploit > USB Exploit (GeoHotz's) > 2 hackers pissed off and opens the system more [this is where news of Dev Network came about] > GeoHotz cracks console open, releases hardware keys = Lawsuit against all three. Then Anonymous came in and destroyed the server-side of PSN network. Then more hackers became involved.
It is not illegal to mod your own property otherwise it is not really your property. The people who distribute the protected media are the only people if any that can be held accountable for anything at all. Just like my phone, just like my car, just like anything. If I mod something, it is my responsibility to use it wisely and legally.
They have wanted you to do whatever you want with the system for the longest time. Its just that one of the hackers thought it would be smart to distribute instructions on how to bust open PS3...caused the whole thing to fall apart. Its not Sony's fault this happened.
I will have no problem with sony claiming a right to remove otherOS if they are willing to replace my discs when they stop playing. Then I won't need to back up my investment.
I don't remember reading anything about this, so I'll move on now...
I hope they put each and every one of them in jail. When you find a security leak, the thing to do is contact the company and point it out discreetly (for a fee if necessary), not to hack them and embarrass them in public while putting their customers at risk to other attacks. But that's just my take on it.
I agree. This should have been done in the first place.
erm, as far as I know they simply removed it because Sony wanted to, not because of any exploit in it - would have been far easier to close the exploit than remove the Other OS completely.
That's wrong. It was the exploit that caused it. I don't think Sony wanted to remove it, they knew there'd be a backlash. And it would not be easy to close the exploit, since after all the exploit would be found within the Ubuntu/Windows platform (yes, you could have installed windows on that machine.)
As I said, I'm not excusing Sony, quite the opposite really. They bought it partly on themselves by making the system a hack target by people who simply wanted to run their own choice of OS on the hardware. Had Sony activiely encouraged this, then we could quite likely be looking at a totally different situation. Instead they chose to put up a 'wall' on the hardware which was then a red rag to the hackers who more than likely saw it as a challenge to knock down.
I never said you were excusing them, I said that most people think they're at fault...and that they should take the blame. That's wrong. They HAVE for the most part encouraged everyone to install whatever they like on their system, just as long as you do not modify the system to be demeaned in any way. Sony has no problem with you messing around with your own $600 console, just as long as you are not stupid enough to find exploits like GeoHotz and other hackers that caused other hackers to bust open the system to be vulernable and put customers/consumers at risk.
At the end of the day, I'm with you on this - whatever device I have, the manufacturer should not tell me what I can and can't run on it. If I want to install Linux on it, then I should be able to.
For the most part they wanted you to. But its people like GeoHotz that ruin that idea in the first place. The whole point of PS3 is to be the only open-source system on the market.

At the time of PS3's release, Apple was gaining popularity because of the openness of the mac OSX platform.
oh, thanks for calling me Stupid as well ;)
I wasn't calling you stupid. :(
 
So here's Sony trying to make up for it:

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Select two PS3™ games from the following list:
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Two Free PSP Games
Download two PSP® games from the following list:
(yours to keep*)
• Killzone®: Liberation
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To welcome users Home, PlayStation®Home will be offering 100 free virtual items.

This is our way of saying thank you for being a loyal fan. And once again, welcome back to PlayStation®Network.

Sincerely,
The PlayStation®Network Team
 
Same people hacked some intercept servers that the FBI use as well... now they got attention.

Media hyped the FBI got hacked, but it was only some type of intermediate server they use... not the actual FBI databases themselves... still got their attention though now.
 
I mean I don't understand how hacking a console can be the cause of a network being hacked and for that matter how putting that information that allows full access to a sony server could be anyone's(end users) fault.

I consider them (the hackers) being public about it a good thing...everytime someone tells a company they're insecure, the system admins go crazy and get offensive for getting told what they need to fix instead of saying thank you.

Whats the alternative...someone hacks them and then says nothing while they use your credit card. I am a victim of identity theft and I can tell you that by the whole point of credit card fraud, if the hackers wanted to use this to make money and not because they wanted sony to fix their network, than they wouldn't have millions of cards redflagged by saying 'hey we stole your isht' basically. They were making a point, nothing more or less.

Removing otherOS was only to
A:
circumvent playing backup copies of games and had no other security issues as far as I know.

B:
Also they had a big problem with the US military using tons of clustered ps3's as a supercomputer instead of the ibm servers using the same cell processors. Also see http://www.wpafb.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123231285
In this one computer used by the department of defense which happens to be one of the 100 fastest computers in the world they by using ps3 instead of blades or rackmount saved between 22 and 40 million dollars. I am 100% sure this has to do with the push to drop the feature. I mean they do make the chip for sony so I can see them making a deal. Also remember this is one cluster out of X built with ps3's.

They also at one point said on their webpage that the otherOS feature was expensive to maintain but removed that comment after people started making a stink. They are not making money off you if you use linux as they make they're money of your game purchases. geohotz is a patsy for everyone's misdeeds in this situation.
 
Same people hacked some intercept servers that the FBI use as well... now they got attention.

Media hyped the FBI got hacked, but it was only some type of intermediate server they use... not the actual FBI databases themselves... still got their attention though now.
It actually was a contractor firm who was hacked and because it is in some or another way related to the FBI, the media is making a big buzz about it.

Pretty much the same as the HBGary affair earlier this year. Imho, the U.S. government should reconsider their position about the outsourcing of security relevant things to obscure "experts" who apparently don't even know enough about the basics of password security.

It might be cheaper than hiring your own security experts, but you know.. you get what you pay for.
 
I consider them (the hackers) being public about it a good thing...everytime someone tells a company they're insecure, the system admins go crazy and get offensive for getting told what they need to fix instead of saying thank you.
Exactly... usually why these people are picked up by big corporations and Governments...

Big money on offer usually by corporations to hackers who can successfully get into their systems... big business these days.
 
All I can say about the situation is that Sony has taken away OtherOS which in return makes me sad, It also makes me sad when I look at the newer PS3's, Seem that Sony have been taking away much much more than just otherOS.

Paying top dollar for a cheaper built PS3, less reliable product that lacks so many original features and no longer supports otherOS and somehow Sony is the innocent victim. I dont agree
 
Exactly... usually why these people are picked up by big corporations and Governments...

Big money on offer usually by corporations to hackers who can successfully get into their systems... big business these days.

Yup and I think what the hackers were saying is..."while you were busy coding updates to take away features from your end users you didn't want to hear anything about your security needing beefing up to protect them".

In the end sony decided to fix the problem that would make them more money first...instead of tackling security issues that NEEDED to get done.

All I can say about the situation is that Sony has taken away OtherOS which in return makes me sad, It also makes me sad when I look at the newer PS3's, Seem that Sony have been taking away much much more than just otherOS.

Paying top dollar for a cheaper built PS3, less reliable product that lacks so many original features and no longer supports otherOS and somehow Sony is the innocent victim. I dont agree

Most people at the time didn't realize what sony took away from them or didn't even notice the change when otherOS was taken away. People are only going to start catching up on the real facts now, by the way one of the LulzSec group (Robert Cavanaugh ) is in federal custody and there will be more arrests coming supposedly as the group has been breached.
 
by the way one of the LulzSec group (Robert Cavanaugh ) is in federal custody and there will be more arrests coming supposedly as the group has been breached.
Well, we knew that wouldn't take long once they upset the Feds... they should have stuck with private corporations...
 
I have to say though...for the fbi to use servers the govt doesn't own or operate that a private citizen has access to, owns and operates scares me and I will be writing my government now that I read more about it and get more sickened.

If as our president says electronic crime is on the rise, why are we outsourcing servers and why are the people they are outsourcing them to breaking FBI protocols while operating under purview of the FBI with sensitive data that could be about a private citizen or even worse completely classified eyes only data. How is that fighting the good fight?

They are proving that outsourcing your security to an outsider to your group and not handling your own is more dangerous than paying your security employees even if they are the worst.

Is this really what the FBI cyber crimes division is comprised of...privately owned servers??? This should end now. It is not what we pay taxes for. :-(
 
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