Piracy - The Battle

[Sheldon]

Problem Solved.

Ahoy Matey!

 

[akia]

Not really, I'm just wondering why they're making such a large deal out of such a small problem.

There really shouldn't be an issue if resource providers wish to have a forum in which they can help other resource providers avoid chargebacks or pirates, as well as bring up issues to the developers directly. It isn't some exclusive club, it's just a measure to help people who invest their time into their products from being hurt by bottom feeders of the Internet.

So does that mean us customers can have a private forum for us bring up issues in regards to developers where they don't provide whats promised, don't update mods or provide support, so other customers can avoid them. Obviously no developers would be allowed in, we don't want them to be able to defend themselves from claims that may not be true.

 

[akia]

Even if it was, how does it affect you?

See post above

 

[Sheldon]

See post above

Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[jmurrayhead]

So does that mean us customers can have a private forum for us bring up issues in regards to developers where they don't provide whats promised, don't update mods or provide support, so other customers can avoid them. Obviously no developers would be allowed in, we don't want them to be able to defend themselves from claims that may not be true.

Sure. Doesn't bother me. You see, these people can defend themselves with the developer they have issue with. What's discussed behind the scenes doesn't matter. If you're innocent, contact the developer and work it out between the two of you.

 

[Kim]

So does that mean us customers can have a private forum for us bring up issues in regards to developers where they don't provide whats promised, don't update mods or provide support, so other customers can avoid them. Obviously no developers would be allowed in, we don't want them to be able to defend themselves from claims that may not be true.

You don't need a private forum, there is a public forum for resource discussions... I have seen many b1tch and moan posts by customers of X or Y developer.

 

[cclaerhout]

When I left this thread, we were talking about sex and lesbians. It was quite nice. But now I'm reading this:



"You can't use XenForo to illegally download (breach copyright) paid addons...

However,

you can use XenForo to illegally distribute addons"



From a rhetorical perspective, this sentence is certainly valid and is for sure a nice way to "drown a fish" (French expression, might be "to cloud the issue" in English - I'm not sure).

From a legal perspective, this is a non-sense . No matter which tool is used to distribute illegal materials, this is still illegal. And should it really be needed to say that most of users who illegally use licensed addons have also a nullified XenForo. So their is a common interest here between XenForo and developers. So some members want to illegally share addons to have a social position of a warez board? No problem, let's them do it. But every actions have consequences. And revoking their license should be one of them.

Now from a human perspective, this is a ****ty sentence. Developers are most of the time working alone. When some addons are illegally released, it doesn't go in a developer the "lost and profit" sheet, it means less food. So I'm sorry but it's not possible to say "Oh I support developers here" and at the same time writing such things.

it is perfectly legitimate to oppose some of these suggestions from an ethical and privacy point of view.

I'm still don't understand. What is ethically&privacy matter about showing if a member is licensed or not? Again, it's already possible, but the system is not convenient at all. And when a user is illegally releasing addons, I don't see the problem to track him on the Web. May be "tacking" is a word that scares you, but it just mean search information about him using the social networks (most of the time they use them and are very proud of what they do) or to use a search engine. Once the information have been found, they still must be checked and confirm. That's the longest step but it's a key step.

And thats why having a private forum for developers to discuss and black list people is such a bad idea, talk coming into direct conflict with Data Protection Laws.

No. XenForo has never given any personal information about its users, most of information are coming from what can be found on search engines. There will always be piracy, no that's not really a big deal. The main problem is that scripts piracy are far too much visible nowadays. It isn't underground anymore. Some have made choices to become that public, if they leaks their personal information on the web, they know the rules. I'm not really to cry for them, especially when some are publicly reselling addons.

 

[Forsaken]

But you if your just saying so and so ripped me off, how is that a privacy concern. Who decides who gets access to the forum.

It just sounds like developers want a area where they can gossip and moan about customers under the guise of protecting themselfs against piracy.

Truthfully I think there should be more accountability by developers and designers as well; not delivering on products that you've been paid for, not fulfilling services or manipulative pricing are things that should also be looked at. As far as who gets access, it would obviously be up to Ashley, Mike and Kier as to how they would do these changes if they even do so.

If thats what you take from it than you really should just get out of the thread because you're way off the mark. The idea of an exclusive area for designers is so that information can be presented to other designers from them being hit by the same people, as well as giving them a faster way of reporting issues to the developers. You're reading what you want, ignoring what is said and than throwing out a ridiculous argument to make this seem like a completely different suggestion.

 

[akia]

Keep fighting the good fight!

And your just proving my point, because I don't agree there should be a private forum for developers to gossip about customers your implying that I'm a pirate. If that was being done behind closed doors I'd be unable to defend myself and it would have implications for any future add ons I could decided to buy as and when I need to do so.

 

[jmurrayhead]

And your just proving my point, because I don't agree there should be a private forum for developers to gossip about customers your implying that I'm a pirate. If that was being done behind closed doors I'd be unable to defend myself and it would have implications for any future add ons I could decided to buy as and when I need to do so.

If you're not pirating addons then you have nothing to worry about, now do you? If you're denied a sale, as I suggested above, take it up with the developer that denied you. THEN you can defend yourself.

 

[cclaerhout]

If that was being done behind closed doors I'd be unable to defend myself .

No, that's incorrect. For what I know, moderators have always contacted members first to hear what they have to say (and after to have some solid facts). Now... most of the time, what they have to say are just lies. "Oh no, that's no me".

Edit (hit the return button too fast): on the other side some members were honest and became XenForo customers after it and paid their addons (I'm thinking of a French guy right now ^^).

 

[Forsaken]

So does that mean us customers can have a private forum for us bring up issues in regards to developers where they don't provide whats promised, don't update mods or provide support, so other customers can avoid them. Obviously no developers would be allowed in, we don't want them to be able to defend themselves from claims that may not be true.

Yes, and no. I think there should be more accountability for those that release resources to prevent dishonest or people lacking ethics from offering services or products that they're not going to follow through on. However there is a larger likelihood of false reports and trolling by non-developers than there are by developers who put their reputation at stake. Resource providers only have their reputation and a false claim can largely impact their products.

You can also easily leave bad feedback on their add-ons or make a post as Kim said, though you should obviously try to get the issue mediated in private before it comes public.

 

[Sheldon]

Ahoy Matey!

Contact us if needing access.

 

[akia]

You can also easily leave bad feedback on their add-ons or make a post as Kim said, though you should obviously try to get the issue mediated in private before it comes public.

And thats my point, its a two way street and the same thing should be done by developers. If a member rips them off they should try to resolve it in private then in not go public with it.

and just to prove a point that I'm not a pirate as had been implied heres a screenshot of my cp showing the only 3 add ons I use.

 

[jmurrayhead]

And thats my point, its a two way street and the same thing should be done by developers. If a member rips them off they should try to resolve it in private then in not go public with it.

and just to prove a point that I'm not a pirate as had been implied heres a screenshot of my cp showing the only 3 add ons I use.

your battery is almost dead.

 

[Sheldon]

OMG!!!!

PRIVATE INFOZZZ

 

[akia]

 

[Ingenious]

I'm still don't understand. What is ethically&privacy matter about showing if a member is licensed or not? Again, it's already possible, but the system is not convenient at all. And when a user is illegally releasing addons, I don't see the problem to track him on the Web. May be "tacking" is a word that scares you, but it just mean search information about him using the social networks (most of the time they use them and are very proud of what they do) or to use a search engine. Once the information have been found, they still must be checked and confirm. That's the longest step but it's a key step.

Just to be clear on this point, my objection is not about showing whether I am a licence holder or not. I would support our profiles here showing this to any visitor because it's all open and transparent.

Neither is it about anyone expressing an opinion about another person, or stating if someone was ripped off and by whom providing those are facts and it's not defamation or libel.

Nor is it about any seller of an add-on, or any developer, asking me for more information if I make a purchase to prove I am legit.

It is to the suggestion that people vet or blacklist other people in secret and exchange information on people in secret. It raises ethical and even legal concerns. Because it is in secret it is open to abuse and mistakes. This is where it gets muddy, when it goes wrong. I want to stop piracy as much as you do, but the process has to be sound and robust, and preferably, transparent.

Remember, when we talk about "legality" and "ethical" we are not using these terms to protect the PIRATES we are using them to protect the public and consumers and any innocent party that might get embroiled in the process of trying to stop piracy. I think some of you are misunderstanding the fact we are on the same side and getting defensive as a result

 

[akia]

Just to be clear on this point, my objection is not about showing whether I am a licence holder or not. I would support our profiles here showing this to any visitor because it's all open and transparent.

Neither is it about anyone expressing an opinion about another person, or stating if someone was ripped off and by whom providing those are facts and it's not defamation or libel.

Nor is it about any seller of an add-on, or any developer, asking me for more information if I make a purchase to prove I am legit.

It is to the suggestion that people vet or blacklist other people in secret and exchange information on people in secret. It raises ethical and even legal concerns. Because it is in secret it is open to abuse and mistakes. This is where it gets muddy, when it goes wrong. I want to stop piracy as much as you do, but the process has to be sound and robust, and preferably, transparent.

Remember, when we talk about "legality" and "ethical" we are not using these terms to protect the PIRATES we are using them to protect the public and consumers and any innocent party that might get embroiled in the process of trying to stop piracy. I think some of you are misunderstanding the fact we are on the same side and getting defensive as a result

thank you, you've put across the point i was trying to make much more eloquently than i've been able to.

 

[Kim]

As it is in the interest of designers and developers to sell more product, it is extremely unlikely that someone would be listed on any so called black list unless there was a good reason for it.

Even then it would be up to the individual designer or developer to choose if he or she is going to use that information or not.

I would look at each instance on a case by case basis.

So if say developer X posted that user A had a chargeback due to a fraudulent credit card, that would be a definite NO... if Developer X posted that he and user A had a dispute, I would want to know more from User A, and Developer X on what that was, and what efforts had been made to mediate.

In short, you're not going to get listed for nothing.