It just shows how much Obama differs from Bush. I laugh when conservatives blame Obama for being weak on foreign policy. I think they mistake being smart with being weak. Kudos to Obama. I hope Ron Paul will become the Republican presidential candidate in 2012. Barack Obama vs Ron Paul would be a worthy race to watch.
Osama Bin Laden is dead!!
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steven s
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I think it all comes down to his advisers and being able to change course as needed. Previous administration seemed to make knee jerk decisions.
I firmly believe Chaney was calling the shots.
Wonder what Bush and Cheney really think now about invading Iraq and causing so many casualties among Iraqi civilians and U.S. servicemen. Why?
I think there is a real need to reform U.N. and make it more relevant when it comes to decision-making like going to wars, etc. As it stands now, U.N. is nothing more than a tool for pushing superpowers' agendas. India, Germany, Brasil and Japan should become permanent members of its Security Council.
erich37
Well-known member
steven s
Well-known member
Johnny Large
New member
W. saw his father lead the country in an operation to expel the Iraqi army from Kuwait, saw the US servicemen being received as liberators, and saw his father being received with thunderous applause in Congress when he declared that agression was defeated. W. sorta tried to do the same as soon as he had a chance, but he didn't get it quite right.. I can still remember the infamous Mission Accomplished banner on an aircraft carrier. EPIC FAIL.
All in all I hope this provides closure to the families who lost someone on 9/11.
All in all I hope this provides closure to the families who lost someone on 9/11.
Sadik B
Well-known member
At the risk of sparking an undesired debate, let me state something.
Peggy, I find your statement a little disturbing. Undoubtedly and in the most categorical terms I state that a person guilty of mass murder, spreading animosity among the world and causing thousands of innocents to suffer the loss of loved ones, deserved the fate he got and maybe even more. However the thing is, I do not believe Osama was alone responsible for all of the above. I definitely am making no attempt to defend him. However I do not trust the official position of the US government.
The fact is, we have seen no evidence whatsoever that Osama Bin Laden was behind 9/11 other than self incriminating tapes. Let us for a moment, accept those tapes and accept the government's position that it was indeed Osama and Al Qaida who were entirely responsible and no one else. Even then, do we turn a blind eye to the kidnap, torture and mass murders of innocent lives that the Bush Administration caused and which Obama is now continuing? Does in your mind, Bush and his top officials also deserve punishment?
I am from India, not from any Arab country and have largely a viewpoint of an outsider as I neither belong to this camp or the other. However in my mind, Bush and his government are far more guilty than any other person on earth and they need to be tried, tried in an impartial court for whether any government entity in the United States had advanced knowledge of 9/11, whether their attack of Afghanistan was justified, whether they deliberately lied to to the world about Iraq, whether they were aware of the kidnap and torture and turned a blind eye, whether they caused the lives of a quarter million Iraqis and thousands of American and allied soldiers to be lost for their unjust purpose and overall whether they did or did not uphold the constitution of the United States. These are merely allegations and allegations don't make one guilty, unlike how the media assumes one of guilty when alleged unless proven innocent. I would however want that the world know that our human civilization is capable of dispensing justice to whosoever is oppressed, be it a desert Afghan or a modern American.
Obama in his announcement said, "Justice is done". I am sorry Mr. President, the world does not believe you.
whitetigergrowl
Well-known member
Not very many wars have no civilian casualties. And it's a shame the innocent get dragged into wars.
That being said, justice was done. You said it yourself, Osama was self incriminating. You can't get much more direct than that. Regardless of what you think of how trustworthy the U.S. govt is..
If you admitted to being the mastermind behind a 9/11 style attack, does it really matter how trustworthy the govt is? No. You just admitted to the crime. You are guilty.
What is more interesting is how outsiders try interpreting the U.S. Constitution. Because the fact is, there is more than just the U.S. Constitution that is called into play. Explain how the U.S. Constitution applies to anything that happens outside the U.S..
As for your quarter of a million Iraqi deaths...according to Wiki Leaks its quite a bit less than that. And of those is there any actual way to confirm who was or wasn't a terrorist. Especially since terrorists like to blend in with and drag civilians into the conflicts knowing it will create sympathy in their favor if civilians are killed. Blending in with civilians is good stealth, but should any of them get killed in conflict are also now sympathy pawns the terrorists use to gain more followers and those sympathetic to innocent civilian deaths.
Because now you have people not wanting (rightfully so) more civilian deaths, which also now can cripple how we attack the enemy especially if they hide in with civilians. It also can turn what could be a quick fight into a more drawn out one that results in more causalities. Nature of the beast. Sometimes you get unintended consequences from such actions.
http://www.ict.org.il/ResearchPublications/tabid/64/Articlsid/432/Default.aspx
Is One Man’s Terrorist Another Man’s Freedom Fighter?
SchmitzIT
Well-known member
It seems it was me who misread it. Thanks for enlightening me
This one? I am not a fan of Obama, but this picture had me laughing out loud.
Aye. It somehow reminds me of the Jessica Lynch rescue. I was in the US at the time that happened and recall reading an interview with an Iraqi doctor basically the day after it happened, that there were no guards there at all. Yet, the images showed marines storming and shooting. It took some 6 months for that to be corrected in the media back then.
MGSteve
Well-known member
If taken in the context of the IRA perhaps, but Bin Laden was not fighting for freedom, if anything it was the opposite. Al Qaida & the Taliban want to impose repressive regiemes onto people, if anything that statement applies to the US & her Alliese more than Bin Laden!
There always will be people who distrust what the government says, hell I don't believe half of what the UK government says!, but you do have to bear in mind one thing, if the US Government was ever proved to be lying or fabricating anything to do with the war on terror, it would be an absolute PR disaster on a monumental scale.
Its the same with the conspiracy theorists who say that the CIA was behind 9/11. You can bend any facts to suit your story and of course you can make up facts where none exist, but can you imagine the effect if the CIA actually did something like that.
Mind you tens of millions of people in the US believe that the world is about 4,000 years old (including Presidential hopeful Sarah Palin) and the Flat Earth society is still going strong, so I guess some people will believe anything!
SchmitzIT
Well-known member
A freedom fighter will fight soldiers. A terrorist will not care who their actions kill.
The majority of civilian victims in Iraq recently were due to terrorists, by the way.
Sadik B
Well-known member
I would like to say just one thing. There were no terrorists in Iraq before Iraq got invaded. No Iraqi was of any danger to anyone in the US. The whole pretext of Iraq having ties with Al Qaida and possessing WMD was found to be a lie.
Quarter million or 0.1 million or 10,000 or 1, any innocent life killed is a crime.
steven s
Well-known member
As much as you want to, you cannot hold the current administration responsible for the actions of a previous administration.
Yes, the whole Iraq war was a cluster fk and the US embellished their intelligence along the way to justify it.
This thread is about Bin Laden. Those killed or hurt in the World Trade Center, Flight 77 and the Pentagon is also a crime.
Peggy
in memoriam 2016
It is unfortunate that you find my statement disturbing. I, however am not entering into a debate. I am not talking about Mr. Bush, nor Clinton, nor Obama, nor the U.S. Government. I am talking about one man here. Osama Bin Laden. A man who not only announced, admitted, that he masterminded the 9/11 attack, but bragged about it. What more proof was needed, i ask? He boasted about his own genius.
Yet my statement is disturbing? Too bad. It is how I feel and I stand by it.
Also you should not presume to speak for the world when you say you don't believe justice was done.
You have no way of knowing how the world feels.
Peggy
in memoriam 2016
And you know this... how?
erich37
Well-known member
lol you people crack me up. If it was all about the oil, surely I wouldn't be paying over $4.00 at the pump.
Anyways, this is apparently how Bin Laden was really found.View attachment 14543
yeah it´s for the oil ONLY.
and the vast majority of what you pay at the pump is going to the taxman in order to bail out the corrupt banks....
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