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Implemented member_card.css - put the CSS in the Style

Discussion in 'Closed Suggestions' started by Hoffi, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. Hoffi

    Hoffi Well-Known Member

    The Membercard CSS is not using anything from the Style-Setting.

    Many other CSS also is not using the CSS from the styles. Why are you building a good styling-engine, and did not use it for 100%?

    Styling a Forum is so very difficult. For every Setting you must search whete to find. In a CSS File or in the Settings.
     
  2. Shelley

    Shelley Well-Known Member

    Good question. Bad example. Replace membercard with navigation being expanded upon and you have a good enough argument to make your case.

    Membercard in style properties imo takes more time to customise than it would if you use extra.css for example. I see where your going with this though and agree 100%. Especially in navigation and for people that want to further customize say more advanced areas (navigation) this is an area that needs some extending. That said: debug true create your style properties would be a better solution with some documentation posted.
     
    Fuhrmann likes this.
  3. Hoffi

    Hoffi Well-Known Member

    Just use existing Style Settings also for Membercard. You set your basic Colors in the Style, and many items including the membercard, did not change anything. That is not good at all.

    Use a Styling angine, or use it not. But not style your product on two ways.
     
  4. Forsaken

    Forsaken Well-Known Member

    There are maybe 10 things that do not change when you fill out your color palette, and they're not things that really need to be changed.

    Style properties are actually very limited, and restrict you much more than using CSS. They're mostly there for the people who aren't 100% comfortable with CSS.

    Also style properties are directly linked to the CSS, so it is styling the product in one way, just with two methods of a single end result. Style properties for beginners and the intermediate, and extra.css for the more advance.

    If every area of XenForo had an associated style property group, it would overload the majority of people. I'm speaking from experience here, as I've extended many of the sections and the people I have previewed it too have been a bit overwhelmed (And they're experienced stylers).

    The membercard is also one of the least important places that would need a style property group as it is only a few declarations to completely change the look (The majority of which involve using !important to override the existing look).
     
    Shelley likes this.
  5. Shelley

    Shelley Well-Known Member

    100% (y)
     
  6. Hoffi

    Hoffi Well-Known Member

    Overwriting Styles in extra.css is a really bad solution. Destroying old declarations due overwrite is no good webdeveloping at all.

    Having two interfaces for the same things to change, is also wierd. How the user should know, wehere to change.

    The only good solution is : Give the User One Place to change all.

    I also would be lucky, without any Style-Backend and a good collection of CSS Files. For developing this is very handy, instead of having multiple options to change the look.

    If you think, that putting all into the Backend, would create an overload, the System is bad, and it there must be found a better way to organize it.

    But on the second way, it is my opinion that no HTML rookie should manage a community alone.
     
  7. Forsaken

    Forsaken Well-Known Member

    How exactly is overwriting in extra.css a bad solution? Its exactly what it is used for, and it gives greater control (Its forward compatible with different versions of XenForo).

    There aren't two interfaces for editing; there is the style properties, which is a UI for styling, than there are the stylesheet templates where you can customize the code directly without dealing with pre-existing properties. Its quite logical, and god help Kier if he ever changed it (Which I doubt) as limiting people to just style properties would screw over every designer who wants to design outside the box.

    If we were restricted to just style properties everyone would have to work within the same model (For the most part anyways). For example, I don't generally use the default navigation or forum_list properties? The reason being is they're limited for beginners to use and are functional only so much as they'll need to design using them. I make use of most of the navigation section as well as adding a few extra things. This wouldn't be possible with just style properties (Or would require that every designer make their own style properties).

    I already explained; the style properties are there for people who do not directly understand CSS. While there is a learning curve, it is much smaller than there is for learning CSS. Kier himself has stated that he expects professional designers to make use of template edits as much as possible. It isn't black and white, there is an in-between that allows people to use both. Having to just have one choice is ridiculous as it would be too advanced to beginners, or too limited for professional designers.

    The system isn't bad, there is just a lot of things that are used in XenForo. In the framework I've done I've added 20 (Will be adding a few more) style property groups and 302 style properties. If all of that was in the core (Some of it would fit in other groups and some are to override existing properties) it would definitely overload people. It isn't that the system is bad, it is that the system is extensive. XenForo is built upon a very rich extensible CSS framework that gives a lot of control over everything, the problem is most people will never have to go outside of the style properties. XenForo is balanced for professional designers and for beginners, changing that will piss off one group or the other.

    I also think that administrators should have a basic understanding of CSS, HTML, and enough skill to debug their own issues. But we live in the real world, and maybe 20% have the skills stated above (Or at least enough to get by). XenForo is a commercial product, they cannot just pick one group to cater to the beginners or experienced, they have to cater to both which they have done very well.
     
  8. Hoffi

    Hoffi Well-Known Member

    Each overwrite is a redeclaration of a class. Here in XenForo we have many overwriting in CSS, what causes a overhead and a bad control of which style is use. The !important selector works only once. ;)

    "There aren't two Interfaces... there is a UI and templates."

    UI: 1
    Templates: 2

    I count two ways of changing the layout. ;)

    I know many systems of styling, no problem. This one fro XF is not bad. But it's not gold for all.
    Many of my CSS Templates are changed. But I like to change not too much, to be a easy updateble forum at all.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike XenForo Developer Staff Member

    1.2 has new member card style properties in the next update, BTW.
     
    Jeremy, Amaury and wickedstangs like this.

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