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Make it easier to edit terms & rules

Discussion in 'XenForo Suggestions' started by Mr Lucky, Jul 4, 2015.

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  1. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    I think it would be better if there was a more user friendly way to edit terms & rules.

    It would be best if there was a WYSIWYG editor and the terms were in a more obvious place for admins and mods to find e.g. under the help pages menu item in ACP > Home
     
    maszd, Axel B, Gladius and 11 others like this.
  2. empire

    empire Well-Known Member

    I agree. XenForo's terms and rules section is useless for us because most of the staff don't know html. (Although I don't think our six pages of rules would fit the format anyway.)
     
  3. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    I also thought, why are the terms and conditions, which are often several paragraphs and bullet points, referred to as a "phrase?"
     
    eberkund likes this.
  4. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Phrases can be translated.

    Hence why the text is phrased.
     
  5. James

    James Well-Known Member

    Phrase refers to the system used by XF to store text. You can edit the XF phrase in the admin control panel and change the text that is associated with that phrase.
     
  6. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    ???

    Anything can be translated. Doesn't "phrase" just mean a few words, not necessarily a sentence?
     
  7. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    Basically you can create a new language in the ACP (or import on that has been created). All of the phases can then exist in the default language (US) and the new language (e.g. French). When a user is using the US language on a forum, they can see the terms and conditions in English. When a user on the same forum is using the French language on their, they see the terms and conditions in French.
     
  8. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    I understand that text can be in different languages (obviously!)

    But why is a whole raft of paragraphs, headings etc. called a "phrase?"

    My admin team would not even think of looking for the rules as a "phrase"
     
  9. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    What would you use as a term to encompass all of the phrased text?
     
  10. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

  11. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    When you understand what phrases are, it's actually quite intuitive as to why it's been done this way. The problem with your suggestion is it doesn't take into account the translation of terms and conditions. The customer help pages are useful but they aren't translatable in the same way.
     
  12. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    So basically, it's only intuitive for the cognoscenti??? I'm not sure that's a great definition of intuitive.
     
  13. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    If you can use big words like that, then surely you can understand the principles of phrases. ;)

    Anyway, you've not addressed my point, which is that your suggestion as it currently stands doesn't take into account the translation of terms and conditions. So, please enhance your suggestion to take this into account.
     
  14. empire

    empire Well-Known Member

    I don't think terms and conditions are something that should be translatable. People in different countries may need different terms entirely, not just a translation of a boilerplate. There's no flexibility.
     
  15. Dylan V

    Dylan V Well-Known Member

    Most of the advanced forum software like IPS Community Suite don't use the language system to translate the rules. They have an advanced system that allows users to easily create something very complete without any difficulty. I'm a coder and I think that it must be complicated for beginners. In my opinion, it's time to move to a higher level, because I think that it's outdated to use this way to make the rules. Personally, I prefer to create a thread to introduce rules, because I absolutely don't like how it's structured on XenForo. The rules shouldn't be mixed with the language system.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
    dieketzer and empire like this.
  16. James

    James Well-Known Member

    What do you think phrases are? You can make a phrase mean something completely different in Russian to English... It isn't a "translation of a boilerplate" you can literally translate it into what you like.

    What does the system by IPS do that makes it so spectacular? Does it write the text for you? If you still need to write the text with the IPS system then, no matter how advanced, I'd argue it's exactly the same... Except in xenforo you can edit a phrase but IPS have some form of interface.
     
  17. empire

    empire Well-Known Member

    I think of phrases as the reusable, generic bits of text in a theme that, among other things, can be translated into other languages.

    Terms and rules are not generic, but are specific to each site. The fact that it's possible to make them say something entirely different does not mean that phrases are the best option.
     
  18. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    I think you've missed the point entirely. Yes, XenForo provides a stock terms and rules, so does many other forum software. This can simply be edited to suit your forum. If you need another language on your forum, you create a new one (or import one) and have translated terms and rules in that. How you translate these is up to you, they can be the same or say something completely different to suit the language.

    The advantage of having terms and rules as a phrase is that a user will see these displayed only in the language they have selected on a forum. You don't get this with a post in a thread, there's no translation for that. You'd have to have all translations in a post or multiple terms andrules threads in different languages which I don't think is as good a solution as having a single location for all users, no matter their language, as we currently have with terms and rules, which works because it's a phrase.
     
    Amaury likes this.
  19. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    I do not understand. Posts in a forum tend to be in one language, so we must assume that people who speak another language are OK with this, or there would be (heaven forbid) some kind of Google translate option that auto translates posts into different languages.

    No. A reasonable grasp of literacy has nothing to do with understanding the weird intricacies of software and jargon used by developers ;)

    There seems to be a lack of logic in that the help page is under the main admin menu, but not a terms and rules page. If there is any logic and consistency the same argument about languages/phrases used above should also apply to the hlep page. (see I already translated help :) )

    Too late, I can not now edit my first post.

    My suggestion was about admin useability. It's not my job to explain the solution, I was just throwing the suggestion out there and it seems to be quite a popular suggestion so far.

    If I wanted my rules to be also available in another language it would be easy enough to show them in different languages all on the same page, like people are now used to with instruction manuals.

    I think the whole digression about "phrases" is irrelevant and backward looking, ie appears to be finding fault with my suggestion because of existing restrictive methods, and instead of looking for a new and exciting way forward that makes the terms and rules feature more intuitive for ordinary people to use.
     
    empire and RDR like this.
  20. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    Clearly you don't run a multilingual community nor have the insight to understand how one works or the needs of such communities to provide terms and rules in multiple languages. Google Translate isn't an answer, its translations can be poor at times.

    BTW terms and rules aren't difficult to find. I've never changed them on my site and so never bothered looking for them. I just used the ACP search and easily found them.

    Screenshot_2015-07-04-22-22-18.jpg

    Your suggestion about making it easier to edit in the ACP, that's a fair suggestion. I don't think anyone would complain if they added a rich text editor to areas where HTML can be added. The bit about moving it elsewhere and effectively not being a phrase is the contentious point as you haven't taken into consideration how others use this. Suggestions which change existing functionality, if implemented, should to be of benefit to all, not just for a few and detrimental to others.
     

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