Gun control

[jasetaro]

Heh.
Are you a betting man ?

Nope, not when it involves Republicans.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Nope, not when it involves Republicans.

Smart move.

I did find some information you'll like.

My Tim Horton's coffee drinking, Hockey playing, Milk Bag Drinking, Canadian butt can get a Bushmaster AR 15 !

Restrictions: The Bushmaster AR-15 bullet magazine only holds 5 shots max. and

Even the Bushmaster AR-15, restricted in Canada to gun club enthusiasts with tight licensing requirements, only looks more menacing than other weapons that are unrestricted, he says.

 

[Straydog]

I found it very disgusting to see you gun enthusiasts(and NRA) so fiecefully fight for your right of continuously owning guns in the U.S. over so many innocent kids' dead bodies!

Yea, we banned jets right after 9/11 too. After all, too dangerous to possess...

If guns are eliminated by law in the U.S., you don't need guns to protect yourself or your family.

Really? You think all crime will go away? Look at Mexican gun laws and how effective they are...

Of course, there will still be a few extremely evil guys able to get to guns and harm people each year, but at least the annual gun-related death rate in the U.S. would not be in the 30k, it will be in the 100s at most - not from imagination, that is based on all sorts of stats from other developed countries with much stricter gun laws. Each of you could help save thousands of lives annually, and help save tens of thousands of happy families' lives each year, and help prevent tens of thousands people suffering PDSD each year because of the loss of their beloved ones.

Hmm, I wonder how many of those people carry legally owned guns... Betting guns would be made regardless of laws because the criminals will still have them. PDSD ? Thinking that is PTSD is it not?

If guns are eliminated by law in the U.S., you don't need guns to protect yourself or your family.

Another knee-jerk response? Said it once already...


For self-protection at home, right, you don't have guns, but you have other objects to utilize(baseball bats etc.) and you could take taekwondo, karate classes to further prepare yourself for fighting evil/crazy guys equipped with knives etc...

There are about 1/4 of adult U.S. population have some sort of mental health problems, and, someone else in this forum also mentioned the low moral standards nowadays in this country is also part of the causes for the horrific tragedies happened in the past few years in the U.S.... You don't want these people be able to purchase guns. You don't want these people be able to obtain guns because of your negligence-if not you, it will be someone else who are responsible gun owners but make mistakes occasionally. People make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes... Plus, careless people are everywhere, they may not be friends of yours, but they do exist everywhere...

If you can't part with your GUNs simply because that is your hobby, then change your hobby. Change your hobby for preventing another Sandy Hook tragedy or another Colorado movie theatre tragedy happens. Change your hobby for the sake of this country's kids' safety! Change your hobby to save innocent kids and adults' lives!

This is something you can do, if you want to. If you don't want to, then you really belong to the most disgusting set of humans with most selfish souls. I don't assume anyone wants an absosulte free country. An absolute free country is an absolute wild country. I think that's the price you have to pay to stay civilized.

Hmm, thanks for the comments. You really demonstrate how uninformed people can be. Last I knew it was our constitutional right. But then hey in todays American people are more concerned about their entitlements anyway I suppose. Look at how well Europe fared during WW 2. How many millions were sent to their deaths because they had no way to defend themselves. Think it can't happen again? Look around you. Look at the mass killing of people by their government and ask why. I feel bad for the children yes but the person using the weapon bears responsibility, not the weapon be it guns or planes or trains or any other item you can imagine. I could go on but it will be pointless because there will always be those that stand on either side. In America our military has fought for our right to keep and bear arms as well as others. Not sure where others hail from in this thread but thats me and if you don't like your rights here then move to a country that supports your beliefs.

Some additional details;

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control:

56 million.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'...

 

[Carlos]

Yes, actually, I am familiar with hollow-point bullets... first of all hollow-point do not explode, they expand or "mushroom" which creates a larger wound canal. Second while they are theoretically more effective at transferring their energy to the target, and can cause greater tissue damage than conventional ammunition; they are not necessarily any deadlier than conventional ammunition.

That's what I meant by "explode." If they expand, then that person should not be alive. Because we're talking about a bullet that has a circular radius. To me, Hollow Points sounds like a shotgun shell. No joking matter.

A person shot by a bullet can survive, see below for what I mean.

This is not call of duty. You do not recover 10 seconds later after being shot. It does not matter the size of bullet, the power, or velocity behind it. If you are shot by a bullet, you will bleed. When you bleed, your blood pressure will drop, your heart will pound. You will go into shock. If you do not get medical attention, you will die. Hollow point, 50 Cal. It could be a french tickler bullet, it still do not matter. You will die. In my place of employment one of my roles is providing first response medical care. Luckily, gun shot wounds are nil. However, I have seen people scared. Scared there might not be a tomorrow for them. If you want to be on the delivering end of that message, remember it's people we are talking about. Life simply does not have a reset button.

I do realize this is not Call of Duty. I have a cousin who owns a hollow point, and I see the size of the #@^&ing bullet, I'm like "hm. This is why hollow points are dangerous." It's one thing to use it in a game like Call of Duty, and the other to see the damn thing in the palm of your hand.

The reason why I put less emphasis on the other bullet(s) is because by some #@^&ing miracle, a friend of mine survived a shot to his face at close range. Someone pointed a gun at one of his upper cheekbones (damn near his eyeball, too!), with the gun touching his skin, and shot him. That bullet went from the cheekbone, to the back of the person's head. I've been told he was in anguishing pain for months.

Any gun can and will kill. I will not debate the time of a person's suffering may change. I am in favor for more gun regulations / restrictions. It is not because of the smoke and mirror games both sides play. It is because I simply do not like the way I feel when I read about people dying before they should. Who knows, it is possible one of these children from the latest headlines might have found the cure for cancer if was given the opportunity to live.

Thanks for serving your country!

 

[SchmitzIT]

I found it very disgusting to see you gun enthusiasts(and NRA) so fiecefully fight for your right of continuously owning guns in the U.S. over so many innocent kids' dead bodies!

In the same line, the incident immediately was latched onto by the people who want to get rid of guns to start banging their drums again. To the best of my knowledge, the NRA has remained silent on the matter until today. (Not American, so I'm just repeating what I saw in the news. I am not certain if that is true, but if I have to believe the headlines, that was the case).


In Holland there was a shooting today as well, with multiple victims. If only Holland had strict gun laws, apparently that would never have happened.

Oh wait...

 

[Digital Doctor]

You can't prevent all gun deaths.
But the US isn't trying reasonable things to mitigate gun deaths.
And they have a much larger problem than Holland.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ff2d52-49f9-11e2-b6f0-e851e741d196_story.html

 

[Cal]

I found it very disgusting to see you gun enthusiasts(and NRA) so fiecefully fight for your right of continuously owning guns in the U.S. over so many innocent kids' dead bodies!

Really? That's the part you found disgusting? Not the part that this entire gun control debate came about because the liberals decided to exploit this incident and push a gun reform agenda? You don't seem realize that much do you...you are disgusted at gun owners for defending their rights....but you seem a-ok with the guys exploiting the death of children and whom started this debate to begin with. Tell me more about that.....

This event isn't even about guns. We've been completely derailed by the liberals. Upset about this incident? Address mental illness...the real problem. The kid was mentally ill, he was going to kill someone with or without a gun, because the intent was already there. I find it very disgusting that the liberals would exploit this situation for their agenda and that the left thinks they can just push it on the right so easily - fortunately it doesn't work that way in life.

 

[Straydog]

Really? That's the part you found disgusting? Not the part that this entire gun control debate came about because the liberals decided to exploit this incident and push a gun reform agenda? You don't seem realize that much do you...you are disgusted at gun owners for defending their rights....but you seem a-ok with the guys exploiting the death of children and whom started this debate to begin with. Tell me more about that.....

This event isn't even about guns. We've been completely derailed by the liberals. Upset about this incident? Address mental illness...the real problem. The kid was mentally ill, he was going to kill someone with or without a gun, because the intent was already there. I find it very disgusting that the liberals would exploit this situation for their agenda and that the left thinks they can just push it on the right so easily - fortunately it doesn't work that way in life.

+1

Lets address the real issues and not use something as upsetting as this shooting to cover up the real agendas.

 

[Aarmin]

I'm going practice shooting this weekend. I have some old milk jugs I can use. Need to buy some ear plugs.

 

[Jerry]

Upset about this incident? Address mental illness...the real problem. The kid was mentally ill.......

Are you claiming - wholly - that the difference in relative volume of deaths by firearms in the US compared with the rest of the west is without exception due to mental illness ?

 

[Jerry]

Owning a gun does not protect or guarantee freedom, however; take away the right to protect yourself and your family and you are no longer free.

Best read the Patriot Act before believing that one I'd think.

 

[Digital Doctor]

I'm going practice shooting this weekend

Be careful.
2 Americans kill themselves accidentally with a gun, everyday.

 

[EQnoble]

Best read the Patriot Act before believing that one I'd think.

not for nothing....

Reading the patriot act and applying does not change the fact that I was born free to own a firearm and taking that away and forcing me to change my whole life lifestyle and social connections is not an example of freedom...

Yeah so what part of the patriot act says I can not own a firearm?

 

[Neil E.]

Be careful.
2 Americans kill themselves accidentally with a gun, everyday.

Every day there is two less people for you to argue with?

Perhaps someone from the US can tell us what a ban on military style rifles actually means. Is it that you can no longer purchase them, but existing ones can still be owned?

 

[Aarmin]

Be careful.
2 Americans kill themselves accidentally with a gun, everyday.

98% due to negligence

 

[Mike Edge]

Yeah so what part of the patriot act says I can not own a firearm?

Exactly.. Plus I own my land outside of city limits.. Do they really want to try to trespass to come confiscate my AR-15?

 

[jasetaro]

Every day there is two less people for you to argue with?

Perhaps someone from the US can tell us what a ban on military style rifles actually means. Is it that you can no longer purchase them, but existing ones can still be owned?

Heh, good question, in simple term it means banning scary looking black semi-automatic rifles. More specifically if we use Connecticut's current so-called assault weapons law as guide it'll probably look something like this:

Sec. 53-202a. Assault weapons: Definition. (a) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, "assault weapon" means:

(1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol;

(2) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(3) Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection that meets the following criteria:

(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A bayonet mount;

(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) A grenade launcher; or

(B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;

(iii) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

(iv) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

(v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; or

(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and

(iv) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

(4) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

(b) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, the term "assault weapon" does not include any firearm modified to render it permanently inoperable.

And it's worth noting the rifle Adam Lanza used was perfectly legal under Connecticut's assault weapons ban and the expired federal assault weapons ban. The two statutes were/are virtually identical.

As an aside Gallup released an interesting poll on this issue today:

Americans are most likely to say that an increased police presence at schools, increased government spending on mental health screening and treatment, and decreased depiction of gun violence in entertainment venues would be effective in preventing mass shootings at schools. Americans rate the potential effectiveness of a ban on assault and semi-automatic guns as fourth on a list of six actions Gallup asked about.

 

[Vicki]

In the same line, the incident immediately was latched onto by the people who want to get rid of guns to start banging their drums again. To the best of my knowledge, the NRA has remained silent on the matter until today. (Not American, so I'm just repeating what I saw in the news. I am not certain if that is true, but if I have to believe the headlines, that was the case).


In Holland there was a shooting today as well, with multiple victims. If only Holland had strict gun laws, apparently that would never have happened.

Oh wait...

Regarding NRA, check here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/18/nra-to-push-back-soon-sources-say/

 

[Vicki]

Really? That's the part you found disgusting? Not the part that this entire gun control debate came about because the liberals decided to exploit this incident and push a gun reform agenda? You don't seem realize that much do you...you are disgusted at gun owners for defending their rights....but you seem a-ok with the guys exploiting the death of children and whom started this debate to begin with. Tell me more about that.....

This event isn't even about guns. We've been completely derailed by the liberals. Upset about this incident? Address mental illness...the real problem. The kid was mentally ill, he was going to kill someone with or without a gun, because the intent was already there. I find it very disgusting that the liberals would exploit this situation for their agenda and that the left thinks they can just push it on the right so easily - fortunately it doesn't work that way in life.

May God bless your children...

 

[Digital Doctor]

100% love.

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Once or twice a month I hear someone speak the truth.
And this guy just did.
#JimBoeheimSoWise