Gun control

[craigiri]

The rights of American's are slowly being taken away over time...

Ah, so you think the voting rights bills, the civil rights bill, equal pay for equal work, pot decrim and all the other enhanced freedoms mean......our rights are being taken away????

Backwards bizzarro world. Whose rights are you talking about? Be specific. List out those rights.

Once again - as if it bear repeating - the most conservative Supreme Court Justices have made it very clear that common sense regulations don't even touch the 2nd Amendment.

I'd say we are among the most free people in the world and getting more so (albeit slowly, with some kicking and screaming from the right..)

Different universes for certain....

 

[Digital Doctor]

The rights of American's are slowly being taken away over time.

By that do you mean .... the Right to be safe from gun deaths ?
Gun Control will help that !

 

[Jerry]

Those who ask for gun control are ignorant to the real facts. Freedom to own firearms is what keeps our country *free*.

Free is a subjective, and very misunderstood term.


With power and what most perceive "freedom" is comes with a need for responsibility. As well as a need for a strong social fabric, connectedness and respect for others. Degrade those elements, constantly feed people fear and tell them "It's everyone for themselves" and then make it trivial to get firearms and the outcome is fairly obvious.

I really cannot see how gun owners contribute to greater freedom. Please explain.

It's a talking point to distract from the social issues and liabilities of having the weapons, by focusing on the "rights", even if it's taken out of context to turn a situation into an agenda driven argument that ignores the outcomes.

I've lived in many places in the world, and visited a whole lot more, and the one place I've rarely felt safe because a large percentage seems to be on edge and accepts an arms race mentality is the US. And even after events like this hearing calls for the arming of teachers as a solution is madness to me, that isn't solving anything that's making it twice as bad. Much the same as the "it's all about mental health" claims, while the US might have a very high rate of it, and be popping pills at an alarming rate, it's not the only country that has members of it's population experiencing mental health issues. So just another distraction.

It's seems to be a lack of taking responsibility on many levels that is the issue.

 

[Rho Delta]

Its definitely interesting to see the European's thoughts on this. Very different than here in Texas. I am a gun owner and I would say 90% of my friends are too. I personally own a shotgun for hunting but many of my friends own at least 5 firearms for various purposes. Its a normal, non extreme thing here. People just have guns and it isn't a big deal at all. I've never seen anyone use a gun outside of hunting or at a shooting range or at a ranch. The cultural differences are very apparent. I think you imagine it as the wild west where everyone is carrying their pistols in holsters everywhere they go and it just isn't the case.

 

[Vicki]

 

[Vicki]

 

[Vicki]

Wake up! Gun enthusiasts in the U.S. !

 

[Shelley]

Its definitely interesting to see the European's thoughts on this. Very different than here in Texas. I am a gun owner and I would say 90% of my friends are too. I personally own a shotgun for hunting but many of my friends own at least 5 firearms for various purposes. Its a normal, non extreme thing here. People just have guns and it isn't a big deal at all. I've never seen anyone use a gun outside of hunting or at a shooting range or at a ranch. The cultural differences are very apparent. I think you imagine it as the wild west where everyone is carrying their pistols in holsters everywhere they go and it just isn't the case.

I can honestly say I don't know anyone with a gun. Nor shot and killed by a gun. Knife however, yes 2006 a dear friend stabbed in the heart. Point being I hear and know about more knife related deaths then gun related here in the UK.

If I thought about it more the type of people with guns I know of around my local area would be farm owners and that's about it.

 

[Ryan McAdams]

By that do you mean .... the Right to be safe from gun deaths ?
Gun Control will help that !

Keep trolling.

 

[Reeve of Shinra]

Shifting the focus on the gun lobbying is a distraction, pure and simple, from the real cause of the tragedy - a mentally ill person who chose to harm others by any means necessary.

Because it has nothing to do with the issue of common sense gun laws that we see effectively used in other developed nations that result in gun deaths in the 100's vs. US "Wild West" lack of regulation and gun deaths in the 10's of 1,000's.

As others have noted, America is not the wild wild west where gun laws do not exist. The majority of people (outside of law enforcement) in entire states do not own a gun yet people still die by them. Connecticut, where this tragedy happened, has some of the strictest laws. Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[Ryan McAdams]

Free is a subjective, and very misunderstood term.


With power and what most perceive "freedom" is comes with a need for responsibility. As well as a need for a strong social fabric, connectedness and respect for others. Degrade those elements, constantly feed people fear and tell them "It's everyone for themselves" and then make it trivial to get firearms and the outcome is fairly obvious.

You're completely wrong... The vast majority of gun owners are very responsible people. My kids could never get to my guns (short of cutting off both of my dead hands) nor could anyone else. I am a gun enthusiast... I've been all over the world and it's absolutely false that taking away guns makes anyone safer. Look at Mexico.

It's a talking point to distract from the social issues and liabilities of having the weapons, by focusing on the "rights", even if it's taken out of context to turn a situation into an agenda driven argument that ignores the outcomes.

I've lived in many places in the world, and visited a whole lot more, and the one place I've rarely felt safe because a large percentage seems to be on edge and accepts an arms race mentality is the US. And even after events like this hearing calls for the arming of teachers as a solution is madness to me, that isn't solving anything that's making it twice as bad. Much the same as the "it's all about mental health" claims, while the US might have a very high rate of it, and be popping pills at an alarming rate, it's not the only country that has members of it's population experiencing mental health issues. So just another distraction.

It's seems to be a lack of taking responsibility on many levels that is the issue.

Talking point?

It's the SECOND AMENDMENT.... it's a Constitutional right, it's there for a reason... to protect against tyranny.

With every RIGHT we have here in the United States comes great responsibility. Freedom of speech protects your ability to say how you feel but it doesnt mean you should. Gun rights in the United States are VERY limited already. The idea that somehow adding more laws will stop people from mass murder is just another fallacy perpetuated by people who just don't understand guns or know anything about them.

But let's get to something more important...

What gives anyone the right to tell me what I can and cannot own? It's amazing to me to watch people tell me they know better than I do about what I should/shouldn't or can/can't own. I know better than you what I should own, what weapon systems I should own and/or operate. The idea that you or anyone else know how to run my life better than I do is a bit pretentious.

 

[Reeve of Shinra]

I'd like to ask for information from those who support gun ownership.

I understand the original idea by the founders of American society was that gun ownership protected political freedom.
That is, that an unarmed citizenry cannot stand up to government and other authorities to protect their rights and freedoms.
I have seen comments here that suggest that this is still true today, that guns are essential to protect political freedom.

How does this work?

I ask because I have not observed any use of guns in campaigns about civil rights, feminism, children's rights etc Campaigns, petitions, demonstrations, lobbying in Washington do not include guns. Occasionally a demo has a violent event but this doesn't help its cause. Similarly some freedom fighters have been assassinated by a gun; so have presidents and other politicians trying to achieve better freedoms. This does not help them do their job! Nor does high security against guns help politicians communicate with ordinary people, it shuts them off behind guards and barriers.
Government has become far more oppressive and many freedoms have been lost.I have not noticed gun owners being prominent in the struggles against this. If anything they tend to be conservative and support the control of citizens by legal authorities.

I really cannot see how gun owners contribute to greater freedom. Please explain.

1. Violence is always a means of absolute last resort. Guns are not the first line of defense but the last. Advocacy of responsible gun ownership is in fact advocacy of trying to resolve a situation by any and all peaceful means first.

2. You are implying between the lines that gun owners are itching for the possibility of a revolution. That is absolutely not the case. Despite disagreements of a political nature - and some extremely strong positions on both sides of the aisle on any given hot topic -American's prefer to work within the system, not overthrow it. The system may require tweaks, but the architecture (of the US constitution) is by and large a successful one.

3. You also make an incorrect implication that supporters of the 2nd amendment are not supportive of other individual liberties. Some may reside on one side but others are clearly on the other. I won't dilute this topic by going into specifics as this could be a controversial seaway not important to the topic at hand.

 

[Digital Doctor]

It's the SECOND AMENDMENT.... it's a Constitutional right, it's there for a reason... to protect against tyranny.

Sounds like what Nancy Lanza said.
Protecting against some mythical tyranny is just another FUD campaign.
This isn't the 1700s anymore.
Time to move on.

 

[Ryan McAdams]

Sounds like what Nancy Lanza said.

Your talking out your ass, no one knows the truth about her... it's all subjective and speculation.

Nancy Lanza was murdered in cold blood and you're talking **** about her on the internet. You're really cool.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Your talking out your ass, no one knows the truth about her... it's all subjective and speculation.

Zero speculation. Her sister in law and many others said so.
I can provide URLs.

You're really cool.

Attack the person when you have no rebuttal.
Trying sticking to the topic.
What you said was very analogous to what Nancy Lanza described as a big fear of hers, and why she was arming herself.

 

[Jerry]

You're completely wrong... The vast majority of gun owners are very responsible people.

Given the regularity of these events in the US, that can't be true, I am saying the individuals as well as the society dosen't take responsibility. It's much a reflection of the political atmosphere in the country, constant gridlock and a blame game.

it's a Constitutional right, it's there for a reason... to protect against tyranny.

Given the laws and control the country has accepted without rebelling, that doesn't stand up.

What gives anyone the right to tell me what I can and cannot own? It's amazing to me to watch people tell me they know better than I do about what I should/shouldn't or can/can't own. I know better than you what I should own, what weapon systems I should own and/or operate. The idea that you or anyone else know how to run my life better than I do is a bit pretentious.

It's an observation of the facts of the outcome of these beliefs and attitudes of entitlement (dead children etc) combined with a social lack of the acceptance of the outcome, every time this happens it's always something else. More guns, more attempting to blame poor regulation and ignoring the root causes isn't going to make it better.

 

[Digital Doctor]

I change my mind.
I'm converted.
Just got my daughter an early Christmas present.

Isn't she cute ?

 

[DBA]

2009 USA murder (not limited to firearms) per 100,000 people - 5.1
2009 Iraq civilian car bombing deaths per 100,000 people - 9.8

Where's the outcry on banning cars?

 

[Reeve of Shinra]

Sounds like what Nancy Lanza said.
Protecting against some mythical tyranny is just another FUD campaign.
This isn't the 1700s anymore.
Time to move on.

The US Constitution served as a template that many other nations strove to follow as they reformed and allowed for more personal rights. Our founding fathers believed so strongly in the right to bear arms that they made detailed it in the 2nd amendment, second only to the right to freedom of speech. I consider myself to be a wise man, but I am not wise enough to toss away that which those who are my betters put such careful thought and consideration into.

 

[Reeve of Shinra]

Given the regularity of these events in the US, that can't be true, I am saying the individuals as well as the society dosen't take responsibility. It's much a reflection of the political atmosphere in the country, constant gridlock and a blame game.

Yes and no.

What happened is first and foremost a tragedy and my heart goes out to the families and friends of those lost in this tragic event. With that being said, this - and the other shooting events you refer to - have only reached such notoriety because of the media circus that surrounds it. It sells and so they focus the attention on it.

There was a tragic bus accident some time back in NY where an equal number of children died. The media circus followed that like vultures for a few weeks but it did not reach the same international audience because the press could not pull a hot topic card, like gun control.